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Anonymous 01/13/2021 (Wed) 18:14:00 No. 23588
IDW Sonic Storytime part 2 Starting off at #36
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>>23592 And that was Evan first arc! Thoughts?
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>>23588 >>23588 >>23588 Last thread: >>10011 >>23593 Thanks for the storytime. I'll admit the ending was actually quite fun. I think the arc as a whole was good. Telling both stories (Eggman base and White Park) at the same time was fun, there were plenty of cute moments, Rouge having a more central role helped the story not be so straightforward, there were several franchise references, and although I feel like I'd normally be somewhat against it I feel not having the plot revolve around Eggman (or Starline for the most part) helped it be more relaxed. It seems the predictions about Belle's creator are about to become true. I hope whatever they have planned for the next arc isn't boring. It seems it's gonna be Starline focused, but I hope it's not that he just spawns something overpowered and they spend the rest of the whole arc fighting it.
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>>23595 >I hope it's not that he just spawns something overpowered and they spend the rest of the whole arc fighting it.
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>>23592 The thing with the body hair just reminded me of this. >>23597 That could be anything r-right?
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>whole arc about Chao Races >no Chacron Missed opportunity. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I wish this series wasn't so focused on OCs. It's still pretty good, and that includes this latest arc, but I'm not interested in a licensed comic because off the OCs. I want to see the characters from the source material having adventures. If I wanted characters that aren't from the source material, I could get any other comic.
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>>23605 >Chacron I've been a fan for a number of years and it's the first time I'm hearing of that guy. >Missed opportunity. Chao design in the arc was great though.
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When's the next issue coming out?
>>23735 I think by now at least one should have come out, so the usual storytimefag might be missing. If no one else steps up I might do it later.
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IDW Sonic #37 storytime!
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>>23752 That's all for today installment
So what did Sonic or other non-OC characters actually do in this issue? They need to remember what the comic is supposed to be about, which is an adaptation of a long standing series which is primarily a video game series. It's also supposed to be a series about a guy who goes fast, so I think it would make more sense if the general pacing of the series was much faster than this. This issue felt particularly slow. I don't need a whole issue which is basically nothing but an OC being introduced to other OCs. They should have condensed that Belle plot into as few pages as possible, and focused more on Sonic, Tails, and Amy exploring that base they finally got to at the end of the issue. Or cut the OC driven plot entirely. You'd think they'd have learned from how people still make fun of Penders' OC garbage 15 years later. I get that Belle's creator is obviously Mr. Tinker, which was an interesting idea that should be explored more, but I'd rather it focus much more directly on Tinker than on Belle. If they were going to focus on a creation of Eggman's good alternate personality, I'd rather that creation be a more direct analogue to one of Eggman's famous creations, like some sort of Robot Sonic, or E-100 model, or something like that, so at least that creation would feel more like a take on a concept from the Sonic franchise, rather than just an OC. Autism Alert: Imagine if it was like Tinker subconsciously tried to recreate Gamma (on purpose, rather than by accident like Eggman did) or something. Like when Eggman recreated Gamma in Sonic Battle, only this Gamma would still be a good guy, but not actually the same Gamma. Tinker doesn't realize what he's creating, but just has this impulse to create a robot that looks and acts like Gamma. Then maybe the rest of the crew doesn't trust him because they've been fooled by fake Gammas before, and this one doesn't have the memories of the original or anything, but then they learn he's a good guy in his own right and he sacrifices himself for everybody. Maybe Tinker's inner Eggman personality, even more subconsciously, actually made it so this Gamma would turn evil at some key moment, but Tinker's conscious personality did intend for it to be good, so even the robot basically has alternate personalities, and there's this inner struggle or something. I'm sure that inner struggle thing probably will happen with Belle, of course. Keep in mind, I'm coming up with this off the top of my head, so if I was getting paid I'd put more work into it. But I'll tell you right now that I'd care more about Fake Gamma or something like that, which relates more strongly to the core series, than I care about a character that is just 100% OC.
>>23757 >I get that Belle's creator is obviously Mr. Tinker, which was an interesting idea that should be explored more, but I'd rather it focus much more directly on Tinker than on Belle. If they were going to focus on a creation of Eggman's good alternate personality, I'd rather that creation be a more direct analogue to one of Eggman's famous creations, like some sort of Robot Sonic, or E-100 model, or something like that, so at least that creation would feel more like a take on a concept from the Sonic franchise, rather than just an OC. I wonder if they're going to give Eggman and Tinker the Stefan Urquelle/Steve Urkel treatment and split them into two separate entities?
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>>23758 >split a three-dimensional character into two two-dimensional characters Can't say I like the sound of it.
>>23758 >I wonder if they're going to give Eggman and Tinker the Stefan Urquelle/Steve Urkel treatment and split them into two separate entities? If they're gonna be that retarded, they might as well go full retard and have Eggman turn himself into Bruce Lee Eggman.
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>>23592 It just dawned on me while reviewing the last issue that the dark chao has a cup, how do chao drink from cups? Also what would be each chao type's favorite drinks? >>23749 >that place looks comfy. I love the idea of underground cities. >amy's face holy shit it looks like something straight out of the dark ages. The art in general in this issue looks really out of place. >>23752 Haha holy shit what even was this issue? That walking in circles part reminds me of that one anomaly in Call of Pripyat. >>23757 >I think it would make more sense if the general pacing of the series was much faster than this I don't necessarily agree, it's just that this issue was rather boring. They've been doing faster issues since the beginning and that wasn't really working that great either. >You'd think they'd have learned from how people still make fun of Penders' OC garbage 15 years later. I still don't know if the over representation of OCs and the over importance Sega and IDW give them is just them trying to push a narrative or there's actually that much support behind them. >I get that Belle's creator is obviously Mr. Tinker People caught up on that fast, they figured it out after the issue she was introduced in, lol. It's a neat idea and it was implied on the last issue too, but I guess she must have lied to Tails on the page before last in >>23592 as otherwise Tails would know there was no point in searching for her creator. I wonder what she told him that somehow made sense and was plausible enough for him to believe it. While focusing on Tinker sounds interesting at a first glance I have no idea what they could possibly write about him through the span of several issues if he were to have a bigger focus. >second spoiler
>>23765 Belle said her creator is "missing." Her goal is probably to make that personality re-surface within Eggman. Could be a cool idea. But I still wish the character doing was more directly related to the series. I get that she's a toy because Tinker made toys, but I think it would be cool if she was more directly a less intimidating toy-like version of a well known Eggman robot. I suppose that would make the "twist" much more obvious, but it's pretty damn obvious to begin with. Actually, if you're looking for something that would link Eggman's robots to toys, this would have been the perfect time to use Tails Doll, or maybe the Sonic or Knuckles Dolls from Adventure, or Amy Doll from Mania. Or if Tails Doll would be too weird for this particular plot, then an OC doll with the Tails Doll antenna would work. It should have been a doll rather than a ridiculously out of place looking marionette. Plus, I just hate OCs being teamed with other OCs. OCs should practically always be a secondary character that is associating directly with the main characters. Ideally, they're associating directly with the most main character, who in this case should always be Sonic, unless they're doing a spinoff miniseries or something. But so far we have two miniseries and they're both about OCs. One about a pair of OCs, and the other about a team of four different OCs plus Zavok. I really wonder if there is a reason all these characters are OCs when they all could so easily be swapped out for game characters. Except Belle, who is such a stereotypical example of an OC that it seems like Stanley just wanted to make her OC canon. >Dr. Starline could have been Dr. Fukurukov >Rough and Tumble could have been Bean and Bark >Whisper should have been more directly the custom character from Forces, rather than some secret "Guardian Angel." Her being silent and using different wisp attacks certainly works for that. Being some sort of super special secret agent in a team of Metal Gear references doesn't. >Mimic could have been Fang >Belle could have been more of a Tails Doll type thing >Tangle could have not existed because she is also such an unnecessary deviantart-tier OC >Tangle's beetle sister doesn't need to exist because this entire "Resistance" and "Restoration" thing is a bad remnant of Forces' bad story, and should not have remained as prominent as it is for so long, and having an OC be their leader is rapidly approaching Princess Sally territory, as if they just want to keep using Sally or Nicole or whatever, but can't. I'd prefer if they did use one of those characters. I'd prefer more if they just wrapped up that plot at the point where Knuckles and Amy were both removed from it. Knuckles isn't even doing anything the last several issues. He might as well still be the leader. Yes, it's stupid that he's not on Angel Island, but then that's been the case in the games for like 20 years. But again, just wrap up that entire "Restoration" subplot. It's stupid and unnecessary. Remember what series this is. I'd even rather further use of characters that aren't originally from the games, rather than creating even more new characters. For example, Clutch the Opossum could have been Breezy. However, the way he was used was fairly reasonable, in that he was a relatively minor character who served a specific role in one story. Though I'd still rather try to think of ways to use existing characters instead of creating new ones. Maybe it's not what Sega wants for the series, but if they were smart, they'd be incorporating elements from all the different iterations of the series. The IDW TMNT comics did this pretty well. I get that maybe Sega wants the SatAM characters off limits, so we can't have them as occasional guest starts/tertiary supporting characters, but then they're just replacing them with more "Resistance/Restoration" OCs, which are the same fucking thing. I get that maybe they don't want human characters around, but then they did the live action movie, which was basically the last Hollywood Blockbuster ever made, where Sonic goes to an alternate dimension and interacts with only humans. That main guy from the movie might as well be in the comics, only drop the alternate dimension thing and just say he's Sonic friend who lives in the city and they had an adventure one time early on in the timeline. If you're doing that, might as well have Chris Thorndyke be a similar case (only Sonic met him later in the timeline). The bits from the original series' that can fit in the current/game universe count, the parts that don't fit don't count. Get some cross media synergy going on. Instead, they're just making original stuff while leaving out so much material from not just the games, but the entire franchise. Game material should come first, then material from adaptations that already exist (prioritized in order of popularity/relevance), and only when those things really are fully exhausted, then it's time for OCs. But there's so much damn material that you'd never run out. But if you do use an OC, at least tie it directly to the existing material. One of the only times a Sonic adaptation has ever done an OC truly well was Eclipse, from Sonic Universe's Shadow Fall arc. He's directly related to a logical extension of a game's plot. The Black Arms have invaded many planets, not just Earth. So there logically might be other creatures made similarly to Shadow but from other planets. What if the Black Arms came back with one of these guys, out for revenge? Great idea for a plot that flows directly from the source material. The first IDW arc, before the Metal Virus stuff, was another very good example of a story flowing very logically from the games, and did it without OCs being too important. But they still had to introduce OCs, for no good reason, since they weren't even important to what was actually going on. It's too bad they can't do more like that Metal Sonic arc, or Shadow Fall. Not saying other arcs haven't been good, especially with the IDW run, but those two in particular should be looked at for examples of what to aim for.
>>23766 >Chris Thorndyke
>>23767 Unironically better than a new OC. Not that I'd use him for much, but for crowd scenes? Maybe. Think of how Jar Jar is used in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. Or how when Goku asks the whole world to lend him energy for his Spirit Bomb, characters like Lunch, Upa, and Android #8 all join in. In Archie, after the Super Genesis Wave, they teamed Uncle Chuck with Professor Pickle to do scientist stuff together. Good idea. Maybe Chris's grandfather or whoever that old guy was can do stuff like that. Idk. I don't even like that show enough to know it very well. But I'd rather try to redeem bad old characters than create new ones. Flynn was particularly good at this, and it's basically all he did until the Super Genesis Wave sped things up for him and just got rid of most of the shittiest characters (including many he already redeemed). Where I think he fucked up was on still focusing on those characters too much. What he did with them was great, but he should have also transitioned them to be much less important than they were, and transitioned the game characters to be much more important than they were. What I ideally want is the games' universe with as much stuff from different adaptations folded in as possible, but only if those things can make sense in the games universe. And they should always remember priorities. Game material is top priority, and material from other versions is prioritized based on popularity and how easily it can fit. Then do stories that logically flow from these elements, again, with priority given to things that flow from the games. SatAM and Adventures can both fit relatively easily with a few tweaks. Just say they were adventures Sonic had some time before the Death Egg Saga, when Robotnik conquered a place called The Kingdom of Acorn, and Sonic and Tails teamed up with the locals to fight him. Mobius is what people in The Kingdom of Acorn call Earth. Adventures takes place in the same universe as SatAM to begin with they cross over in the final episode of Adventures, just apparently Robotnik saved his real serious plans for the weekends, when Scratch, Grounder, and Coconuts were off work. There are parts that don't fit with the games, like what exactly rings are/do, and how many Chaos Emeralds there are. Just ignore those elements and make them the game versions. They aren't that important in the show anyway. Sonic X can sort of work. Just drop the alternate dimension stuff and the things that are direct adaptations from the games (since the games are higher priority to begin with, unless there was an eventual actual adaptation of them in the current comics). The other stuff can still mostly fit. Chris is some kid that Sonic met in the city and who followed Sonic around for a few adventures. These adventures happened around the time of the Adventure games and other things the show actually tried to adapt. Even elements from the movie could fit. Drop the alternate dimension thing, but say that in some early conflict between Sonic and Eggman (maybe even the first, like it was in the movie, but I hate that idea), Sonic got help from that human guy and things vaguely like the movie happened. Even Eggman originally being hired by the government (who would of course be GUN) could even work and theoretically be a good story, but I'd be very hesitant about using it, just because it's so far from the games. I haven't watched much of Boom either, but as far as I can tell, it's reasonably close to the games in a lot of ways. Again, just leave out the things that wouldn't fit in the main universe, but most characters and events could still fit well enough to make reference to them as if they had happened in the main universe. I guess that one manga about Sonic being a kid named Nikki who goes to school and transforms into Sonic wouldn't fit very well. Amy and Charmy have already been directly adapted to the games anyway. Sonic Underground probably wouldn't work very well either. Plus it's god awful. But Anton from the manga could fit. Sleet and Dingo and maybe even that one guy who looks like Anton could work in a world that wasn't exactly underground. I'd rather use all these characters instead of OCs.
The other thing I'd do is go back and do a series that actually tells the story from the beginning (meaning starting at Sonic 1), including adapting the games. Then you can throw in all the things I described above into that. Like maybe just before the issues start adapting the Death Egg Saga, you can do an arc that basically covers the events of SatAM and Adventures. Shortly before Adventure, maybe do a single issue about Sleet and Dingo and maybe Bartleby, in an adventure that's as much like Underground as would make sense in the games' universe. After that, do a few issues about some of the spinoff games that fit into that part of the timeline (so say Pocket Adventure or something), then before the Adventure adaptation, do an issue or two that adapt the beginning of Sonic X, again fitting it into the games' universe. Key to adapting the episodic things like this is using montages to establish that many adventures happened which you don't necessarily show on the page. Instead, you just show one panel each representing a few key memorable moments. The same thing could be used again later for an issue or two that adapt Sonic Boom. After Sonic Adventure 2 or whatever the last game Sonic X adapted was, you can do an arc adapting the final season that never aired in Japan (and I never watched), or just make reference to it happening and don't even show it (outside of maybe a montage or something, as I mentioned), since as far as I know, that season would fit very well in this universe in the first place, and is already in a story-focused medium, so it doesn't really need to be adapted at all. Basically, just tell the stories of all the games in order, and try to slot in adaptations of adaptations where they would logically fit. There's enough material to adapt to keep a series like this going for many years. Also, a brief adaptation of the movie (but again altered to take place in the games universe) would happen, but it would be a flashback, because beginning the series like that would suck. Alternatively, just do something like this for the "Classic" games, since Adventure is already story-heavy and you can just say to look at the game for the full story. Maybe the series stops there, or skips over the games that already show their stories with dialogue heavy cutscenes (meaning it just skips to adapting spinoffs like Advance, or Mania, but maybe people would want to see the Adventure adaptation by that point). But for the rest of the games from the '90s, people miss out on the story because most of the story was told through the manuals, never localized, or shown subtly through background details. Those could benefit from comic adaptations that actually tried to be faithful to the source material. Many were adapted before, but never close to faithfully. And again, you could fit adaptations of adaptations in here, to establish how those characters and concepts could fit in this world and thus be used in future stories. This is all assuming that a series that takes place in "the present," meaning after the most recent game, continues. That series would then have access to any characters from adaptations that were included in the "past" series. Instead of doing spinoff series to focus on OCs, do spinoff series to fleshing out parts of the world and history that are already part of the Sonic series, but which you wouldn't otherwise expect the kids reading the comics to be familiar with. Instead of telling them to read a bunch of fan-translated Japanese manuals and watch a bunch of old shows, you can adapt it into the comic universe they're already reading. And if all this sounds autistic, it's comic books. Comics always do this type of thing, mashing different continuities together. Just look at how they do it, and do it here. Note that it does not need to be nearly as autistic as they make it, because they're trying to keep 90 years of material and reboots all being equally canon. This would only be taking 30 years of material, and there would be a strict sense that the games' material is always top priority.
>>23766 >Her goal is probably to make that personality re-surface within Eggman. I wonder if that's a direction that they're willing to go? Make Eggman more of a frenemy type villain and allow Starline to ascent to the position of nasty big bad?
>>23775 Tinker would never be a permanent thing. If anything, it will resurface for a little while before Eggman takes over at precisely the worst moment. Eggman has been a frenemy type villain since Sonic Adventure 2, and though the games stopped with that like 15 years ago, the comics still largely take after the Adventure era stuff in terms of characterization, since the games after that era have practically no characterization. I could see one storyline where Starline does one big final plan, and even Eggman has to team up with Sonic to take him down, but of course after that it would go back to business as usual. It would never stay that way. Not only is this a licensed work, and therefore they probably don't have the freedom to do that, but it's also essentially a superhero comic, and Eggman is a classic villain. Getting a character as famous as him into even a slightly different role is difficult just because the public won't go along with it. The Joker will never become a permanent good guy, or even a sort of neutral guy. The closest example I can think of would maybe be Lex Luthor, who keeps getting storylines where he sort of becomes a frenemy, but then there are still plenty of writers who don't get the memo, or just want to use the classic version, so one day he's a frenemy, the next day it turns out it was all just keikaku, and he's blowing up a planet or something. That's the closest that would happen here.
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IDW Sonic #38 storytime!
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>>23803 That's all for today installment
>>23803 >next time: a backstage pass But you did that last issue >>23752 >>23804 Thanks for the storytime. This issue was more interesting than last at least and with enough depth I think this could get real interesting. I just hope they don't do another dud like when they warped Sonic to Blaze's dimension only for 3 pages or so completely missing the chance to make something interesting.
>>23806 I actually did that same crop. Other than that it was a pretty bare issue for crops. There's an edit I might want to do later though, anyone know the font they use in the comics?
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>>23803 >next month >Eggman stops caring about Sonic&friends, joins gamenight
>>23809 Anime Ace is fairly similar.
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Finally!!!, after a long delay... IDW Sonic #39 storytime!
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>>24010 That's it. See you in two months or when the next issue decides to come out.
>>24006 I was wondering what happened with this. Was this delayed or just not storytimed? I don't remember reading much about delays. >>24007 For a second I thought that badnik was a reference to lyric. >>24011 Thanks for the storytime. I think it was an okay issue with some nice character interactions like princess carrying hedgehogs at high speed. I really want to see where Tangle ends up, hopefully it's not the right world on the first try since the little worlds are interesting. They could probably milk them a lot more considering that they are a perfect plot device to justify doing any almost anything you'd like, like going to different places with nice visuals and experimenting with weird physics, machines, or environments, and it's good practice to keep things varied when doing Sonic. Any idea when the next issue drops?
>>24013 >Any idea when the next issue drops? June 9 if it's not delayed any further.
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>>24006 I can't wait to use this.
>>24011 >second pic I didn't realize John C. Reilly drew Sonic the Hedgehog comics. I do appreciate his sense of humor in the books, though, doing such a funny self-portrait, based on the time his barber fucked up and only shaved half his head. Does anyone else find it weird that the comics treat Amy like the third member of the group instead of Knuckles? And then puts Tangle and Belle in the supporting role, again instead of major characters like Knuckles. Why do the people making the comics hate Knuckles so much? He is consistently the third main character in games that are allowed to have multiple characters and actual stories, but in the comics they treat him like an old piece of trivia that only shows up out of fanservice, like the Babylon Rogues or something. Amy being the fourth main character would make sense, but the lack of Knuckles has been conspicuous for years. Also, it's weird that with all the original characters the IDW comics have introduced, all the female ones are good guys and all the male ones are bad guys. Might be less notable if there wasn't so much attention on their original characters. If this situation was reversed, someone would get bitched at and cancelled.
>>24023 >But the lack of Knuckles has been conspicuous for years. Knuckles was cucked out of the spotlight by shadow years ago. >it's weird that with all the original characters the IDW comics have introduced, all the female ones are good guys and all the male ones are bad guys I didn't notice that because unlike in other comics like marvel, there wasn't an political preaching that would make me think it was pozzed.
>>24027 >Knuckles was cucked out of the spotlight by shadow years ago. But then he got the spotlight back. Shadow hasn't been allowed to be relevant since Sonic '06. Knuckles was one of the main guys in a tv show. He's gonna be one of the main guys in the next movie. He was one of the main guys in Forces (Shadow got DLC since he's just a palette swap, but Knuckles was much more important in the main game). It's weird that the comics have always treated Knuckles as such a minor character, outside of his own spinoff series that ended almost 20 years ago and always sucked. And yes, the Sonic comics aren't as blatant as Marvel, but we all know how bad the comic industry is. The creators sperg out on twitter. The artists draw themselves as fat sideshaved John C Reilly looking trannies on purpose. I can't help but think this is why they had Amy replace Knuckles as leader of the Resistance, and then had Amy replaced by some OC girl, so Amy could go off to be some "tough girl" that she's never been in the games (no, even in Heroes and Adventure, she wasn't like this. She was played much more for comedy). That, combined with the fact that they keep introducing super special super good female OCs, while all the male OCs are bumbling bad guys, is conspicuous. Plus, one of the OCs, Whisper, is clearly supposed to be roughly the Buddy from Sonic Forces, which was already shown in a comic by these creators (albeit one commissioned directly by Sega and not IDW), but instead of making Whisper a random grunt who happens to rise to the occasion and be a big help in the war (which is what the character in the game is) she has to be some sort of super special supersoldier with a super special backstory that makes her all "tragic" and "mysterious" and everyone looks up to her from the moment she is introduced. Also, Stanley's first arc as writer was about Rouge, Cream, and Amy, with Sonic and Tails relegated to a small sideplot. But I still overall liked the arc so I normally wouldn't say anything. But all the things together start to add up.
>>24023 I'd argue that Boom wasn't kind to Knuckles at all in either the games or the show. I guess it might be a difficult character to write if you're a writer that wants to be done with the writing as fast as possible to go back to drinking soy as soon as you possibly can. >spoiler I hadn't thought of that. That's honestly an interesting angle and considering how these kind of things work these days it sounds completely plausible. I was kind of surprised that the comic has kept the virtue signalling to a minimum considering this is IDW we're talking about. >>24029 Yeah, and don't forget Whisper's backstory involves a man as the antagonist that got her team killed and then a whole dedicated mini series about said man 'harassing' her and trying to get her killed as well. Similarly, in Stanley's first story, Sonic and Tails' small sideplot was basically an excuse to add yet another super special woman OC to the cast, but I also agree that it was a fun arc regardless of this.
>>24023 >Does anyone else find it weird that the comics treat Amy like the third member of the group instead of Knuckles? No? Unlike Knuckles, Amy (much like Sonic & Tails) is a character that can be plugged into any story they see fit without having to account for things like Angel Island, or the Master Emerald whereas Knuckles has always needed an excuse to get off the island & join Sonic in his adventures, at least until the mid-late 2000s. Ian Flynn & the writers have always been nerds for Sonic continuity &, much like a LOT of Sonic fans when it comes to Knuckles character, prefers to either give him a good reason to actually take part in an adventure beyond "he just is" or prefers to give Knuckles stories centered around him. Which they have for years, with at least half of Post-Reboot Sonic Universe having arcs that focused on either Knuckles or Shadow. Amy isn't the kind of character that has lore to take into account when it comes to using her in a story, since she'll follow Sonic around wherever he goes, much like Tails. It's also the reason why you're less likely to see a full arc centered around her as the star protag, because she has always been more of a support character to Sonic, as opposed to Knuckles, who's always done his own thing but gets wrapped up in Sonic's shit. As it pertains to the Resistance, when Forces was coming out Sonic fans left & right would constantly bring up how it "didn't make sense" that Knuckles was the leader of the Resistance & Amy throughout the entire existence of the group (in both the game & in the comics), was portrayed as a character that was just as involved in the operations of it as Knuckles, who mostly lead on the battlefront alongside the soldiers of the group. Now that the Eggman Empire was defeated & The Restoration mainly exists to just do clean up around Sonic's World, they more or less appealed to those complaints with Amy taking over, at least until people started complaining about Amy leading the group made her Sally 2.0, so they gave the spot to Jewel, who otherwise had nothing going on for her after the Whisper & Tangle arc. >Amy could go off to be some "tough girl" that she's never been in the games Hate to be that guy, but the comics has had Amy be pretty active for a long time now, dating back to late Pre-Reboot Archie. And her character becoming "stronger & more competent over time" is a narrative that even SEGA has started pushing, with her being the 2nd in command of the Resistance in Forces & even mentioning her growth in a history of Sonic video a while back. IDW is just putting her more in line with all of this, as opposed to just throwing her on the side again, especially since people wanted her to be more active. As for the new OCs that are aligned with the good guys being female, that mostly comes down to Sonic not having a female cast as large as the male cast. Hell it's why we're probably gonna be seeing more new villains in IDW show up, since the Rogue's Gallery for Sonic (even with the additions of Mimic, Starline & Rough & Tumble) are extremely limited, outside of Eggman, Metal Sonic & the Deadly Six. And given that this team is mostly the same group of people that worked on Archie Sonic which gave us evil Fiona Fox, Sonar, Conquering Storm & Thunderbolt, as well as bringing back Wendy Witchcart, we're likely due for some new female villains soon. >>24029 I think you're trying to connect dots that aren't really there, mate.
>>24056 >Unlike Knuckles, Amy (much like Sonic & Tails) is a character that can be plugged into any story they see fit without having to account for things like Angel Island, or the Master Emerald whereas Knuckles has always needed an excuse to get off the island & join Sonic in his adventures, at least until the mid-late 2000s. >Sonic Heroes was 18 years ago Time flies, doesn't it? Heroes was much closer to Sonic 1 than it is to now. Also, it isn't as if the Archie comics, with the same writer, didn't already have excuses to just have other people watch the Emerald. And it isn't as if Forces isn't the most recent game and the one the current comics directly reference all the time. >Which they have for years, with at least half of Post-Reboot Sonic Universe having arcs that focused on either Knuckles or Shadow. Well that's just not true. There are four arcs about them and seven not about them. >Amy isn't the kind of character that has lore to take into account when it comes to using her in a story, since she'll follow Sonic around wherever he goes, much like Tails. Except when she becomes leader of The Resistance, for some reason. Quite far outside her normal character. >It's also the reason why you're less likely to see a full arc centered around her as the star protag, because she has always been more of a support character to Sonic But there are arcs about her, or at least about small groups that include her, but they all just amount to girl power team arcs, instead of cool shit that could be done with her. Use her tarot cards or something, dang. More could be done with Amy instead of just making her a "tough girl" which is very far from her game persona, and is cliche as hell anyway. Yes, there are even more exaggerated versions of that cliche, but that doesn't make it particularly good here. >as opposed to Knuckles, who's always done his own thing but gets wrapped up in Sonic's shit. More like Sonic does his own thing and gets rapped up in Knuckles' shit. Knuckles is connected to the main macguffins of the series, while Sonic doesn't give a shit and just gets wrapped up in things. I understand the arguments about The Resistance and its leaders, but it's really irrelevant to the point when you're talking about fictional stories being created from near scratch. Frankly, the entire Resistance shit went on way too long and should have been wrapped up a long time ago, given that Forces didn't even have a good story to begin with. The first arc being about the fallout of Forces is a fine idea, but after that, come the fuck on. Beyond that, they can come up with any reason they want to have Knuckles around, and if the game didn't do that, then that's precisely what the comics should have done right away. The comics should have given Knuckles a reason to be around, which could retroactively apply to the game, in the first or second issue. >they more or less appealed to those complaints with Amy taking over, at least until people started complaining about Amy leading the group made her Sally 2.0, so they gave the spot to Jewel, who otherwise had nothing going on for her after the Whisper & Tangle arc. They appealed to those complaints in the wrong way. Making Amy Sally 2.0 isn't a solution, and making Jewel Sally 3.0 is even worse. Jewel didn't have anything to do? Yeah, she's an OC. She shouldn't have very much to do. They should focus on the characters from the source, roughly in their level of importance in the source material. They don't need a Sally, and especially not one that isn't the actual Sally anyway. They shouldn't just invent new OCs to replace the ones they aren't allowed to use anymore. >Hate to be that guy, but the comics has had Amy be pretty active for a long time now, dating back to late Pre-Reboot Archie. Yes, I referenced that. >And her character becoming "stronger & more competent over time" is a narrative that even SEGA has started pushing, Yes, but the comics don't handle it well. See the difference between her arc in Adventure, which is simple but well done, and how she subsequently acts in Heroes and '06 (and SA2 and Shadow, but she isn't as important in those), to how she acts in the comics. >IDW is just putting her more in line with all of this, as opposed to just throwing her on the side again IDW is not doing that, at least not well. And the alternative would not be throwing her on the side, it would be writing her to be more like the games. >As for the new OCs that are aligned with the good guys being female, that mostly comes down to Sonic not having a female cast as large as the male cast. So that means not only that OCs should be female, but that they should all be good and any male ones should all be bad? >Hell it's why we're probably gonna be seeing more new villains in IDW show up, since the Rogue's Gallery for Sonic (even with the additions of Mimic, Starline & Rough & Tumble) are extremely limited, outside of Eggman, Metal Sonic & the Deadly Six. And the Battle Kukkus. And Witchcart and her minions. And Fang. And Bean and Bark. And the Black Arms. And Mephiles. And didn't they even use Breezie after the Super Genesis Wave? I wonder if they can still use AoStH characters at all, since they could use her. In fact, she should have been the one doing the Chao stuff in that recent arc, instead of that OC. And if you're counting Metal Sonic as his own character and not just an Eggman minion, then you can count the other Sonic robots, including the one from 3&K who seemed to be acting on his own and is the main bad guy in Knuckles' story. Also, when you're saying Sonic's female cast is not as large as its male cast, I call bullshit, at least if you're counting more major characters. Major male characters include Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, and Shadow. They haven't been using many of the male characters beyond that. I guess Big if you want to count him. Major female characters include Amy, Rouge, Cream, and Blaze. They could also use characters like Marine or even Sticks if they wanted, probably. Oh and there are the babylon rogues, 1/3 female. They could use Witchcart and probably Breezie but they don't. One of Witchcart's main minions is female, and she only has like three minions right? I might be forgetting some characters, both male and female, but my point is that there are plenty to use. >And given that this team is mostly the same group of people that worked on Archie Sonic which gave us evil Fiona Fox, Sonar, Conquering Storm & Thunderbolt, as well as bringing back Wendy Witchcart, we're likely due for some new female villains soon. Look, I wouldn't be noticing things like this if it wasn't CY+6 and if the creators weren't sperging out on twitter about their extremist politics in the first place. But since they do, and since the comics industry in general is so fucked, then I start to notice all these other things which, in isolation, I might otherwise ignore.
>>24077 Look if you wanna argue the comics could've used Knuckles & Amy better post-Forces story, I'd agree with you. However, I at least understand the logic in why they've made these decisions, even if I personally feel the Restoration was long in the tooth by the time they finally moved the concept aside from the main story. >Well that's just not true. There are four arcs about them and seven not about them. In Post-Reboot Archie Sonic Universe? Not counting the issues that were a part of Worlds Unite, there was 9 arcs in total for that comic (PPP, the Eclipse trilogy, SoL, Silver Age, Eggman's Dozen, Shattered & Pirate Princess), 3 of which was based around Shadow & Eclipse's story (with Knuckles & the ME being a major part of the trilogy), while the 4th was about Knuckles, Amy & Team Dark. 4 arcs featuring Shadow & Knuckles, with 5 that didn't. Not a majority, but still far more attention given to them than any other character in that entire run. >Use her tarot cards or something, dang. Unless stated otherwise by SEGA, Amy's love of tarot cards & magic ball readings are just a hobby. And unless that changes, they aren't something that the IDW team can use for an entire story, I'm afraid. >See the difference between her arc in Adventure, which is simple but well done, and how she subsequently acts in Heroes and '06 (and SA2 and Shadow, but she isn't as important in those), to how she acts in the comics. She shamelessly flirts with Sonic, hounds him with romance whenever she can, still acts protective of her friends, gets involved in the fight when she feels the need to do so, acts bubbly when it fits the mood of the story... I gotta be honest, outside of IDW not playing up her trying to see the good in villains (ala Shadow, Gamma & even Infinite to an extent), there's not much missing here compared to how she's written in the games. >So that means not only that OCs should be female, but that they should all be good and any male ones should all be bad? No? It just explains why they're padding out the female roster since (counting all the male/female characters), there's only 8 compared to the male roster of 12. If anything, the inclusion of Tangle, Whisper & Jewel also adds some extra depth to the Sonic roster overall, since not many other characters can fill their archetypes, without some retooling at least. >And the Battle Kukkus. And Witchcart and her minions. And Fang. And Bean and Bark. And the Black Arms. And Mephiles. According to Ian Flynn (& other writers), none of these can be used. All Classic characters like the Hooligans & Witchcart have been forbidden from the main IDW line by SEGA since they're "classic exclusives." It's also why we didn't get Honey in this comic. And the Black Arms & Mephiles are unfortunately off-limits too, it's the reason why they had to create Eclipse as a new character instead of retooling an old one, ala Breezie. And it was confirmed a few months back, that despite asking about her availability, SEGA didn't grant usage of Sticks in the IDW comic. For one reason or another, SEGA's being very protective about what characters can & can't be used, even game characters like Infinite are off-limits. >the creators weren't sperging out on twitter about their extremist politics in the first place. Being 100% honest, I couldn't tell you the first thing about the IDW/Archie teams beliefs until people started spamming unrelated tweets they made in chan threads. And even then, they've done nothing I consider to be egregious, unless you think there's a certain limit on what "should" or "shouldn't be" in a comic.
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>>24056 >that mostly comes down to Sonic not having a female cast as large as the male cast But the villains if anything is where the women proportion is smaller, however that's somehow not where they started. >Hell it's why we're probably gonna be seeing more new villains in IDW show up When they add them then I guess you'll be able to argue they they did, but so far they haven't. Personally I think counting the amount of men and women in groups is one of the most mind numbing things someone could do but it's what's being done all the time so it should done both ways and not selectively when it's convenient to (((some))). I'm sure if you look around enough you'll be able to find cases where writers have done this exact same thing because in their mind they were sticking it the man. >>24077 >Frankly, the entire Resistance shit went on way too long and should have been wrapped up a long time ago The resistance is one of the most boring concepts they could have come up for Sonic period. It makes the stories be centered around a concept that's boring to the core, limits what the characters can do and ties them up in the boring stuff, and is too close to reality to tell a fun fantasy story like Sonic should have. I imagine they just had to include it due to Sega wanting the new comics after Archie be a lot closer to the games, but I think it's all a blunder. I think Ian was the one that mentioned how Archie was to Sega no more than some advertising for the games, and I think Sega really took it to heart with IDW. >>24113 >Look if you wanna argue the comics could've used Knuckles & Amy >Knuckles & Amy You had one job anon. >She shamelessly flirts with Sonic, hounds him with romance whenever she can, still acts protective of her friends, gets involved in the fight when she feels the need to do so, acts bubbly when it fits the mood of the story... I gotta be honest, outside of IDW not playing up her trying to see the good in villains (ala Shadow, Gamma & even Infinite to an extent), there's not much missing here compared to how she's written in the games. I feel her character has been dialed back a lot. I guess that's what people have always asked for, but I think that makes her a lot more boring and empty. Maybe it was because she was tied up with the Restoration, or because they were all too busy with the metal virus catastrophe, or perhaps because they focused on other characters or maybe or something else, but I feel they allow her character to actually shine too little. It's always great when it does though. >For one reason or another, SEGA's being very protective about what characters can & can't be used, even game characters like Infinite are off-limits This frustrates me a big deal because they make all these rules that actually play against their own products and stifle their growth and then the next thing they do is violate all their own rules on a whim because they just felt like it. They try to play it the absolute safest and compartmentalize the franchise like this because it's supposedly for the best and then they do the most outrageously dangerous thing they can come up like Boom or the movie (which somehow didn't end up a disaster by complete miracle), not to mention how they still put Sticks in the Olympics games or Classic in Forces or Movie stuff in Colors. They're just playing all of this by ear and barring out big parts of the franchise because there are no real plans. It reminds me of when they wanted to purge certain Sonic communities because they might have wanted to release products with those same names at some point in time.
>>24114 >I imagine they just had to include it due to Sega wanting the new comics after Archie be a lot closer to the games I strongly doubt this. This doesn't make it closer to the games. The Resistance was only in a single game, and even if it was the most recent game at the time, I doubt Sega felt this invested in the concept. Much more likely is that Flynn was just used to writing the Freedom Fighters and just changed the name, the same way he just swapped out Sally for Amy and then Jewel. That said, it was cool to have the comics directly continue on after Forces and continue using concepts from it, but at the point when Knuckles didn't need to be its leader anymore, that was the point when The Resistance didn't need to exist anymore. It was years after Forces came out, and I find it extremely hard to believe Sega said "you have to keep using this one concept from this one game from years ago," when, by the logic you're applying to them (which does seem likely) they would have actually been telling the comics to incorporate elements from the movie. If the comics were forced to bring in that human guy from the movie, it would be retarded, but I'd believe Sega told them to do it, and I'd understand it on some level. The Resistance just being a permanent thing now, though? That's not Sega. That's just people who want to keep writing the Freedom Fighters.
>>24113 >No? It just explains why they're padding out the female roster since (counting all the male/female characters), there's only 8 compared to the male roster of 12. But they added five new male characters so far, all villains. So they've actually added more male characters than female characters, upsetting your ratio even more. However, combined with many other small factors, it becomes conspicuous that all the male OCs are villains and all the female OCs are heroes. Your ratio excuse doesn't check out, and wouldn't be a good excuse in the first place. You're also just avoiding the point that was made before you entered the conversation, so I don't get why you even chimed in in regards to that comment. >Hey, did you notice that all the female OCs are heroes and all the male OCs are villains? >Yeah, they probably just noticed there were more male characters overall and wanted to even it out. See how even if that were correct, it wouldn't address the actual point being made? >And the Black Arms & Mephiles are unfortunately off-limits too, it's the reason why they had to create Eclipse as a new character instead of retooling an old one, Huh? But Eclipse IS one of the Black Arms, and they feature prominently in his story. So obviously they were not off limits, since they were used in the same stories he was used in. >If anything, the inclusion of Tangle, Whisper & Jewel also adds some extra depth to the Sonic roster overall, since not many other characters can fill their archetypes, without some retooling at least. Tangle's archetype is basically Charmy. I also don't think any of these archetypes need to be here anyway. Especially Whisper, who is one of the most cliche archetypes ever, especially in recent years. Jewel doesn't need to exist because the Resistance shouldn't exist. >Being 100% honest, I couldn't tell you the first thing about the IDW/Archie teams beliefs until people started spamming unrelated tweets they made in chan threads. >chan Ah, now I see the problem. But I'm too autistic to not argue with you anyway. I don't go on Twitter either, but combined with all the other factors, knowing that they sperg out on twitter makes a lot of sense. Again, it's a lot of little things, some littler than others, that all add up, and when you finally see enough and it clicks, you're like "ohh....." >And even then, they've done nothing I consider to be egregious, unless you think there's a certain limit on what "should" or "shouldn't be" in a comic. I have no idea what you're even trying to get at here. I don't think there's a limit on what "should" or "shouldn't be" in comics in general. In an adaptation of pre-existing media, though? Yes, there are definitely limits on what should be in the comics. But this is really irrelevant to the point that you greentexted right before it, so I'm confused as to why you say it. It's as if you're trying to accuse me of censorship or whatever. No, they should have the right to sperg all they want. In fact, in many ways it's good, as it alerts people to how bad they are, and makes it easier to see the bullshit they're pulling in their actual work. It's not good for them, and if I was concerned for their own best interests, I'd recommend against it, but I'm not, so fine. If I were their bosses I'd tell them to knock it the fuck off, because they're trying to sell a comic book, and a children's one at that. If you're not talking about the twitter stuff, and talking about what is in the books themselves, then again, they can go make any indie books about cutting their own dicks off or how evil males are, and that's fine. But in a Sonic the Hedgehog comic, they should strive to keep the characterization, tone, and everything else as close to the source material as possible. I think in some ways they've been failing, and some of those ways are a bit conspicuous when viewed together.
>>24116 >it becomes conspicuous that all the male OCs are villains and all the female OCs are heroes. It's only "conspicuous" if you think it's done for any reason other than "they made an OC who just happens to be male/female that's evil/good." Otherwise, it's not conspicuous by any stretch of the imagination. Hell, even the potential reasons I gave about it is nothing more than mere speculation, but they both don't hold any water because we don't know why they made certain characters male or female & it's dumb to assume it was done with any real purpose. >But Eclipse IS one of the Black Arms, and they feature prominently in his story. So obviously they were not off limits In Ian's own words: https://web.archive.org/web/20151102140204/http://bumbleking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7165&p=370440#p370440 Mehpiles & Black Doom were both off-limits in Archie Sonic, thus, Ian created Eclipse as a means to still use the Black Arms concept, without touching a character SEGA wouldn't allow. >who is one of the most cliche archetypes ever All Sonic characters are the most cliche archetypes ever, so it sounds like she fits. And unlike Charmy, Tangle can be used without having to bring up anything Chaotix-related & can fill out the world of the comics with an established OC, similar to Lanolin, Jewel, Rough, Tumble, etc. > Again, it's a lot of little things, some littler than others, that all add up, and when you finally see enough and it clicks, you're like "ohh....." Like I said, connecting dots that aren't really there to draw a conclusion. >The entire last paragraph Cringe. Also, given how much of an eye SEGA is keeping on this comic, if something was there that actually didn't belong in a Sonic comic, it would be scrapped. So far the only things SEGA's reeled in was certain traits of the game characters they want emphasized (like Shadow's only motivation being that he wants to fight strong guys, Amy's crush on Sonic being slightly toned down, Sonic not blushing when Amy hugs him, etc. etc.) Everything else as it pertains to the OCs, or whatever themes the comic's had has not only been allowed but in some cases, outright embraced by SEGA, like how Tangle & Whisper have gotten more promotion/mentions/merch than any Archie OC has ever received. You don't have to like what's in the book, but overall, it doesn't seem like the issue with IDW isn't whether or not they're keeping it close to the source material. And I have no idea what you're on about with the whole "cutting their own dicks off or how evil males are" mess, but that's an issue you have that's completely unrelated to IDW
>>24129 >It's only "conspicuous" if you think it's done for any reason other than "they made an OC who just happens to be male/female that's evil/good." Yes, that is what I mean by conspicuous. Alone, I'd have thought nothing. In combination with other factors, it caught attention. >& it's dumb to assume it was done with any real purpose. I never said my suspicions were 100% confirmed. That's why I just used the word "conspicuous." Eventually, with many factors combined, it caused me to raise an eyebrow. Again, if it weren't in the current comic book industry, and the creators weren't loudly screaming about their intentions on Twitter, and all the other stuff I mentioned, then I wouldn't be as suspicious. But there are enough factors adding up that I am suspicious. Also, I didn't even bring up that this is IDW, a company worse than even Marvel with SJW shit. This is the company that invented Trannyformers: Homos In Disguise. This is the company that replaced classic GI Joe characters with Fat Samoan Women (TM) like a Poe's Law Mad Lib. This is the company that made Snake Eyes into a latina teenager, and published covers that the artist admitted were supposed to look like gay porn, and had a writer of GI Joe who, on 9/11, said essentially that if you weren't specifically in Lower Manhattan on that day, then you weren't allowed to mourn. And he writes GI Joe, of all things. So when sales tanked and Hasbro forced his firing, the CEO of IDW forced a secretary to let the fired SJW use her name as a pen name so he could keep writing, until they all got caught and said CEO got fired (probably because Hasbro licenses make up like half their sales). You'll forgive me for being suspicious of the modern comic book industry, and especially anything by IDW. >Mehpiles & Black Doom were both off-limits in Archie Sonic, thus, Ian created Eclipse as a means to still use the Black Arms concept, without touching a character SEGA wouldn't allow. Oh, Black Doom. Yeah, he's dead. That's different from the Black Arms, who continued appearing in the comics with Mephiles. >All Sonic characters are the most cliche archetypes ever, so it sounds like she fits. I'd much rather shounen archetypes than modern SJW archetypes, thank you very much. >And unlike Charmy, Tangle can be used without having to bring up anything Chaotix-related Why would I mind that? Use the Chaotix more. And they could also use them individually sometimes and flesh them out that way, instead of only treating them as a group. That would be cool. >& can fill out the world of the comics with an established OC, similar to Lanolin, Jewel, Rough, Tumble, etc. That's exactly what they shouldn't be doing. If I wanted to read about characters that weren't from pre-existing Sonic material, I would read literally any other comic book. Especially since the OCs they do create don't fit particularly well and aren't as good in the first place. There are a few OCs that made sense and fit, like Eclipse, but most are just random shit that don't have any particular connection to anything. Again, Whisper could have fit, but they fucked it up. >Like I said, connecting dots that aren't really there to draw a conclusion. But they are there. Where you disagree with me is whether they should be connected. A few years ago, I'd have not been so suspicious. With how things have gone, however, I can't imagine how one could have managed to keep their naivete for so long. >Cringe Ah, that explains it. You're not from here. Just go back to whatever SJW site you're from. >Also, given how much of an eye SEGA is keeping on this comic, if something was there that actually didn't belong in a Sonic comic, it would be scrapped. If your definition of something "belonging" is just that Sega allows it, then you're missing the point. I guess all those humans from the movie fit too. But oh, I'm sure Sega paid less attention to a huge blockbuster multimillion dollar film than they did to a comic book, an obsolete form of media that the majority of the buying public don't even realize still exists. Sega can fuck up with the property too, as they have many times in the past. >And I have no idea what you're on about with the whole "cutting their own dicks off or how evil males are" mess, but that's an issue you have that's completely unrelated to IDW It's very intricately tied with IDW in particular, actually. But it's everywhere else in the comic book industry as well, and in the wider western culture. You're lying when you say you don't know what I'm talking about. You especially couldn't make your way all the way down the levels of obscurity to get to this site without knowing what I'm talking about. Just go back to whatever SJW site you came from and continue peddling your lies there. At first I thought you were just naive, but you've overplayed your hand now.
>>24115 >adding core elements from the story of the games doesn't make this closer to the games I don't really follow. >I doubt Sega felt this invested in the concept They don't really need to feel invested in the concept, they just want ads for the games like it's been said before and this fits the bill perfectly since it's a prominent concept in the game the comic started off from. Although your theory is interesting and not completely impossible I don't think there's anything really to back it up. >I find it extremely hard to believe Sega said "you have to keep using this one concept from this one game from years ago," I didn't really say they were told to keep using it although it's something that would make sense if the goal is to keep the comics close to the games, just that they had to include it in the beginning due to that reason. Having said that the Restoration was central to the Metal Virus saga so it would have been awkward to dissolve it in the middle of that, and that arc didn't even wrap up until a few issues ago. >they would have actually been telling the comics to incorporate elements from the movie But the movies are not the games. Regardless, Sega tried to distance themselves from the movie as much as possible until the very last moment when it didn't actually totally bomb, and they even came out and said they didn't have anything to do with the movie in interviews. Additionally they're always going on about keeping the different eras separate which is why there are no classic characters in the comic. Honestly now that you mention it I'm kind of surprised they haven't done any independent books with movie stuff. I guess it could be a combination of them not having rights to the image of the the big and very expensive cast of the movie, and probably lack of planning until it was too late. >>24129 >it's dumb to assume it was done with any real purpose I think only someone that's been living under a rock and hasn't experienced the overbearing influence of radical feminism in its own life and every inch of society could be so gullible. >connecting dots that aren't really there to draw a conclusion >Cringe >mfw >Also, given how much of an eye SEGA is keeping on this comic, if something was there that actually didn't belong in a Sonic comic, it would be scrapped. I sure wish we had that company handling the games too, it sounds like the games would surely be much more coherent and higher quality.
>>24131 >I think only someone that's been living under a rock and hasn't experienced the overbearing influence of radical feminism in its own life and every inch of society could be so gullible. Oh trust me, I'm well aware of the half-hearted & shit attempts at appealing to folks in video games, movies, TV shows (Ghostbusters '16 being an obvious example). But after a certain point, I realized that it does me no good in assuming every slight thing is being done with that exact same intention, especially something as small as having female heroes & male villains in a series like Sonic the Hedgehog. Is this me saying IDW Sonic has had 0 messages in its run so far? No, but the messaging in the comic has been the same anti-facism & pro-environment messages the series has had for decades. >>24130 >Trannyformers: Homos In Disguise. I'm sure you feel very clever for this part, anon. As for IDW, it seems like your problems with the comic is completely unrelated to what's actually been produced in the IDW Sonic series, which makes everything that they've done with Transformers, GI Joe & TMNT completely irrelevant to what the Sonic series has given us, at least until they do a crossover. Again, it's easy to look at things you don't like & assume there's a connection, but sometimes, that's just not the case & continuing to insist there is one with regards to IDW Sonic is just letting your paranoia get the better of you. IDW Sonic isn't gonna have Knuckles transition, there's not gonna be a scene with Sonic & Shadow making out, calm down. >That's different from the Black Arms, who continued appearing in the comics with Mephiles. Aside from generic Black Aliens, no, the BA made no substantial appearance in post-reboot Archie, aside from the eggs Eclipse was trying to protect (that were later killed). As for Mephiles, he never appeared in Archie Sonic, only showing up in the Encyclopedia at the tailend of the preboot & a cameo in a Zone Jail. Beyond that, SEGA has never allowed Flynn or any other writer to touch them. >I'd much rather shounen archetypes than modern SJW archetypes, thank you very much. Whisper is a Tsundere, which is very much an anime archetype anon. Unless you think her having an energetic female best friend (another anime archetype) somehow = "modern SJW archetypes," in which case, you need to actually watch more shounen. >That's exactly what they shouldn't be doing. If I wanted to read about characters that weren't from pre-existing Sonic material, I would read literally any other comic book. If you thought the comic wasn't gonna introduce characters that didn't exist in any other Sonic media before, explore their history & give them spotlight, you were setting yourself up for disappointment from the jump. Whether it was the Egg Bosses, Moebians & Acorn Kingdom politics of Archie Sonic, Seedrians, Meterex & humans of Sonic X, or the Diamond Cutters, Mimic, Starlines & Tangles of IDW Sonic, this is something that's happened in every piece of external Sonic media ever. And to be honest, the likes of Tangle & Whisper fit the set-up of the Sonic games better than some of their predecessors. Not only were they made with gimmicks that could be implemented into gameplay in mind (Tangle's tail, Whisper's use of Wispons, etc.), but even ones that don't have a gameplay gimmick like Jewel would work well in a hubworld setting as an NPC that spits information at you, ala Chip in Unleashed or Tikal in Sonic Adventure. Aside from that, I fail to see how a characters like Whisper doesn't fit the series any less than the likes of Shadow the Hedgehog, or Eclipse. This is a franchise with a wide array of characters & there's plenty of archetypes/ideas/gimmicks/stories that fit the series & hers is no more out of place than things that the franchise has had in prominence before, unless you think her story is "too dark" for Sonic, which is honestly absurd, given the character who's creator was executed by the government on camera is one of the most popular in Sonic history. >You're not from here. Just go back to whatever SJW site you're from. Mate, I've been using /fast/ since someone spoiled Sonic Forces plot before the Project 2017 trailer was even released, when /sth/ & this place was the only other alternatives to /sthg/ & when we were still on 8ch. Just because someone think you're overreacting doesn't mean they came from some boogeyman SJW website. >If your definition of something "belonging" is just that Sega allows it, then you're missing the point. I guess all those humans from the movie fit too. Actually yes, all of these things are true. The humans were no more appropriate for Sonic as the boring humans that were in Sonic Adventure, Unleashed, Sonic X & Shadow the Hedgehog. And SEGA paid attention to both, especially when the movie was in danger of bombing & costing them money, yet they had no problem with keeping humans in the film. >Sega can fuck up with the property too, as they have many times in the past. Their fuckups were always at best related to gameplay that was undercooked, stories that were underdeveloped, or underdelivered & characters that were underutilized. Very rarely if ever has Sonic had something in its history that was vetted & approved by SEGA that was truly out of place. The only example you could use as something that was genuinely out of place in Sonic was what Ken Penders introduced to the comic, which SEGA didn't approve of when they actually gave Archie Sonic attention (attention that was overall still a fraction of what they gave post-reboot Archie & IDW Sonic, mind you) & they went out of their way to erase any contributions he had to the comic, with Archie Publishing being the only ones who were still trying to profit off of what he added. What you see in the games, what you see in IDW Sonic, all vetted by SEGA, all approved by SEGA, all belonging in the Sonic series, whether you like it or not.
TL;DR
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IDW Sonic #40 storytime!
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>>24150 That's it all!! Thoughts on Evan second arc?
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>>24146 Am I the only one that thinks the art in this issue isn't that great? >>24151 That's a wrap for the second arc already? That was really short. It wasn't that great either. Everyone called the twist the very first issue they started setting it up and ultimately I don't think it ended up being as great as they had envisioned. There were some interesting concepts in the issues but they just didn't really focus on them, and this isn't even the first time this happened. It feels they're really scared or otherwise unable to commit to something that has a bit more meat to it. Ian returns for the next arc right?
>>24152 >Am I the only one that thinks the art in this issue isn't that great? A bit, yeah. My main complaint is that the fighting was poorly done and I can barely tell what's going on for most of it. Like, I'm pretty sure page 8 is Sonic having Amy launch him at the air mech, and then using its fans to launch an attack at the water mech, but they don't really show the action clearly. >Ian returns for the next arc right? I certainly hope so. We're approaching the big reveal of Starline's "enforcers". I'd prefer for his story to not be handled by the current amateurs.
>>24153 >I'm pretty sure page 8 is Sonic having Amy launch him at the air mech, and then using its fans to launch an attack at the water mech, but they don't really show the action clearly. I was also confused about what the hell was going on there. >We're approaching the big reveal of Starline's "enforcers". Ah, I haven't read anything about that. I guess that's what was teased at the end of the last arc right? >I'd prefer for his story to not be handled by the current amateurs. I get what you're trying to say but it's not like Ian has done a stellar job so far.
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IDW Sonic #41 storytime!
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>>24165 That's all for today installment
Why is Sonic being retarded? If Eggman is trying to deal with the Zati then fucking let him. Also do the Zati remind anyone else of the Lunatacks or is that just me?
>>24167 who's Zati?
>>24131 >>adding core elements from the story of the games doesn't make this closer to the games That isn't what I said. I said The Resistance in particular was probably not an element that Sega told the comic people to keep around as a permanent thing. Why would they? You think Sega is still trying to sell copies of Forces? A game that didn't even do well? A game that's 1/3 to 1/2 the age of their target audience? I call bullshit on that. Using it at first was cool. Keeping them around as a permanent thing rings much more as the creators just wanting to keep writing Freedom Fighters stuff. >the Restoration was central to the Metal Virus saga so it would have been awkward to dissolve it in the middle of that, and that arc didn't even wrap up until a few issues ago. That arc went on for way too damn long in general. However, I don't think that is even the issue in regards to the Restoration. The moment it wasn't important enough to keep Knuckles around as its leader, then it wasn't important enough to keep it as a central element of the series. When it wasn't even important enough to keep Amy as its leader, then it definitely wasn't important enough to remain important to the story. When those characters said things weren't as bad and they could step aside, they could have just as easily said that the group had served its purpose and could be dissolved. Both times, it was years after Forces was relevant. Also, changing its name from The Resistance to The Restoration really dilutes any arguments that it was done to connect it to Forces, since it now has a different name and loses tons of its recognition factor. >But the movies are not the games. So? Sega wants the whole franchise to do well. The movie is by far the most successful and prominent entry in the whole franchise in many years. It would make sense for them to want to use elements from it in other media. Moreso than it would make sense for them to continue telling the comics people to keep using an element from a relative failure of a game from years ago. >Regardless, Sega tried to distance themselves from the movie as much as possible until the very last moment when it didn't actually totally bomb, Which was over a year ago. A company interested enough in cross-promotion to tell them to keep using The Resistance, even under a different name, would surely tell them to introduce a version of Tom from the movie. >But after a certain point, I realized that it does me no good in assuming every slight thing is being done with that exact same intention, especially something as small as having female heroes & male villains in a series like Sonic the Hedgehog. And a few years ago you'd say it was silly to see it in something like Iron Man or Thor, but here we are. >As for IDW, it seems like your problems with the comic is completely unrelated to what's actually been produced in the IDW Sonic series, which makes everything that they've done with Transformers, GI Joe & TMNT completely irrelevant to what the Sonic series has given us, at least until they do a crossover. No, it's not unrelated. You'd be foolish to see them doing all these other things and then think they could never be doing something like that again. >Aside from generic Black Aliens, no, the BA made no substantial appearance in post-reboot Archie, aside from the eggs Eclipse was trying to protect (that were later killed). >No, except for all these things that make it a yes Yeah, there were generic Black Arms, plus Eclipse, who is not a generic one. Yes, they appeared in arcs with him. He is one of them.
>Unless you think her having an energetic female best friend (another anime archetype) somehow = "modern SJW archetypes," in which case, you need to actually watch more shounen. You are very naive. I'm sure these faggots think they're copying anime, and I'm sure the ones making Steven Universe or whatever are thinking they are doing that too. It's very easy to see the difference, for reasons already specified. Especially when the characters in question are OCs. It's the difference between Shadow and all the Deviantart OCs created in his wake. They intend to be the same thing, but they are not. And this is the most generous interpretation of the situation. >If you thought the comic wasn't gonna introduce characters that didn't exist in any other Sonic media before, explore their history & give them spotlight, you were setting yourself up for disappointment from the jump. Whether it was the Egg Bosses, Moebians & Acorn Kingdom politics of Archie Sonic, Seedrians, Meterex & humans of Sonic X, or the Diamond Cutters, Mimic, Starlines & Tangles of IDW Sonic, this is something that's happened in every piece of external Sonic media ever. And to be honest, the likes of Tangle & Whisper fit the set-up of the Sonic games better than some of their predecessors. I'm not saying it's not better than before. But that's a very low bar. >Aside from that, I fail to see how a characters like Whisper doesn't fit the series any less than the likes of Shadow the Hedgehog, or Eclipse. Shadow the Hedgehog is from the source material, and well done in that source material. I could delve into a twelve page analysis of how Shadow's story is intricately tied with greater Sonic lore, and expands upon characters like Sonic and Eggman in logical but interesting ways, but that's too long for this post, and if we're on this board, people probably know it already. Eclipse is the result of a clever and logical extension of a plot thread from the source material. It makes sense that The Black Arms, if they go to other planets, probably made Shadow-like creatures on other planets. Tangle doesn't very naturally grow out of anything. She just sort of shows up. Whisper could have been a cool way to have the Buddy from Forces be a recurring character, but they fucked it up, as has been discussed many times by now. >Mate, I've been using /fast/ since someone spoiled Sonic Forces plot before the Project 2017 trailer was even released I don't care. Anyone who wasn't using 4chan since before 2007, and who didn't leave 4chan, at the latest, when moot banned gamergate, is a faggot and needs to get out. >Just because someone think you're overreacting doesn't mean they came from some boogeyman SJW website. Acting as if SJWs haven't infected everything, especially comics, especially IDW comics, is beyond naive. Nobody who got here organically could be unaware of what has happened. Your cliche example of just Ghostbusters still just rings as a typical normalfag response that a shill would have been trained to say if they came under suspicion. "I'm not saying SJWs don't ruin everything. Ghostbusters, my fellow gamers, am I right? I'm just saying it's stupid to pay attention and notice what they do!" >Their fuckups were always at best related to gameplay that was undercooked, stories that were underdeveloped, or underdelivered & characters that were underutilized. >Their fuckups have always been gameplay and story Yeah, the music has typically been pretty good. I don't see how saying they fuck up gameplay and story is somehow a point in your favor, as if those are minor things. >Very rarely if ever has Sonic had something in its history that was vetted & approved by SEGA that was truly out of place. The only example you could use as something that was genuinely out of place in Sonic was what Ken Penders introduced to the comic >There's never been something truly out of place, except for when there was Also there was Sonic Underground. >What you see in the games, what you see in IDW Sonic, all vetted by SEGA, all approved by SEGA, all belonging in the Sonic series, whether you like it or not. Again, you revert to just saying it belongs because Sega approved it. You spend a whole paragraph trying to say that's not what you're arguing, but your conclusion is just that. I would also argue Sonic being a lonely alien who befriends a human from another dimension isn't particularly fitting with the series. In fact, I'll go a step further and say the Freedom Fighters and most of the western shit wasn't particularly fitting with the series, given how hard it clashed with what the people making the games, the source material, actually envisioned. There was also that manga where Sonic was a regular kid who went to high school and then transformed into Sonic, Captain Marvel style. Depending on what you people want to argue, Sega is either hyper-competent or the most incompetent company ever. They likely have very little input toward the comic, just like any other adaptation. They barely have a coherent vision for the games, let alone adaptations, especially adaptations in a medium that the vast majority of people think stopped existing about 30 years ago.
>>24170 The Zeti are the Lost Hex monsters/demons. I misspelled it.

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>>24161 God damn, now this art is good. >>24162 I have to side with Eggman on this one. Also it just dawned on me that Zavok has a tuft of hair, I've never noticed that before. >>24166 The art was fantastic on this issue. The views, the characters, the backgrounds, the expressions, the colors, it was all great. The cover in the middle heavily reminds me of Raseinn's art. >go check his account for some more sample art for my post >the account is protected Great. >>24167 I wouldn't let Eggman in a deadly robot wander around cities either. Having said it feels at least preliminarily retarded that he would use a robot against the deadly six again. >Lunatacks I had no idea what that was but I can definitely see the resemblance.
Oh hey, took ya long enough! >>24172 >It's very easy to see the difference, for reasons already specified. The only difference is whether or not you actually like the writing they produced & even then, anime writing can be just as shallow, if not moreso, than what IDW Sonic or Steven Universe has produced. And yes, SU was copying anime in their show, almost blatantly so. >Tangle doesn't very naturally grow out of anything. She just sort of shows up. Wow, sounds just like most characters this franchise has introduced. The Deadly Six, The Babylon Rogues, Dark Gaia & everything related to it, etc. etc. Tangle showed up as a character from a village who's a fan of Sonic & co. there's very little that doesn't fit the series here. Same with Whisper, who's only relation to Buddy from Forces is that they both use Wispons & nothing else, but besides that, is completely her own character. > Anyone who wasn't using 4chan since before 2007, and who didn't leave 4chan, at the latest, when moot banned gamergate, is a faggot and needs to get out. lol, grow up >Acting as if SJWs haven't infected everything, especially comics, especially IDW comics, is beyond naive. My point is that assuming everything related to this particular comic is "SJW affecting things" is just boring hysteria that has no basis in reality. If you can point to anything in IDW Sonic that's actually similar to something like "Ghostbuster '16" I'd love to see it, but right now, I'm not seeing it. And even if they did "infest the comic," SEGA/Sonic has had plenty of stuff in their history that'd count as "SJW shit," so I dunno what to tell ya >I would also argue Sonic being a lonely alien who befriends a human from another dimension isn't particularly fitting with the series. You could, but it doesn't matter what you feel doesn't belong in Sonic, because that's not what decides what is or isn't gonna be a part of the series. The Freedom Fighters as a concept clearly doesn't fall out of line with Sonic since they just reused their gimmick & more or less the story of SatAM with Sonic Forces, the "Sonic enters a world with humans & befriends one" is something that's been done before with Sonic X, something SEGA was VERY hands-on with & even right now, it'd be inaccurate to say that SEGA "likely have very little input toward the comic" when (as confirmed by people like Ian Flynn) SEGA has never been more hands-on with a Sonic comic before. Matter of fact, it was SEGA/Sonic Team that's helped refine on many concepts introduced in IDW Sonic, with Kazuyuki Hoshino even going as far as helping the team design Tangle & Whisper. Hell, they're the first Sonic comic characters to ever be included in a Sonic game, with the both of them appearing in Sonic Dash & Forces: Speed Battle. So clearly, they have a welcomed place in the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise. You can argue until you're blue in the face that you don't like Tangle & Whisper, or certain concepts introduced in IDW Sonic (which honestly was just concepts already introduced/planned to be introduced in Archie Sonic, or was introduced in the games already) but the argument that these things don't belong in Sonic is just lunacy & there's nothing that really supports it, outside of just your dislike for it.
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>>24188 wasted dubs
>>24189 I regret nothing
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It's time to celebrate Sonic's birthday with IDW Sonic 30th Anniversary Special Storytime!!! It will be a very long one this time.
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>>24202 Oh hell yeah
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>>24214 Second story
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>>24216 Last Story
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>>24218 The end. Well, did you like it? Which story was your favorite? Gotta say the first one was the best and way more enjoyable than the Mega Drive comic. Happy 30th!!!
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>>24220 Bonus covers
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>>24203 I love this so far. The art is great, the story is engaging, there's action but it has good flow and doesn't stale, it's lighthearted and fun. >>24204 It's them-- I've missed Bean so god damn much. >>24212 holy shit is he using Mighty as a shield? That's metal as hell. Bark was great in this. >>24214 >he lent her his scarf I just realized I kinda like bark a lot >>24215 That first story was absolutely fantastic, and there's literally at least one reaction image per page, lol. However it's quite a shock coming from that to the art of the second story. Nice reference though, I wonder if Sega really missed that or if he's really the first character to actually be intended to be in both canons >>22103 >>24217 What even was that story? lol >>24220 Thanks for the storytime anon. I had a lot of fun with the first story. I wish the main comics took a few pointers from this because even if they have their moments they get really tiring, formulaic and stale. The third story was okay for what it was I guess, the ending kind of hits where it hurts.
>>24204 >1st pic, final panel Amy's motivation was never to "prove herself," it was just to be with Sonic. That's what makes her arc in Sonic Adventure work. She wasn't trying to prove herself, but she gets put in a situation that leads to her realizing she could do cool stuff too. But of course importantly, she wants to do cool stuff just because she figures that would make Sonic like her. Turning it into a thing where the other characters won't let her prove herself is dumb. >>24208 >last pic >Bean and Bark work under Fang for Eggman >but for some reason Bark in particular might be less bad Why? Is this something established in the Archie series? In the games, Bean and Bark were probably not intended as bad guys in Fighters, but then they were implied to be bad guys in Generations, so fine. But I don't get why one would be worse than the other. Oh wait, it's just some weird shipping thing. >>24188 >The only difference is whether or not you actually like the writing they produced No, there are actual stylistic differences and you know it. It's easy to tell the difference between the real thing and something badly attempting to imitate that thing. Or rather, something probably not directly trying to imitate, but is just influenced by it, as well as by a bunch of other shitty things. >anime writing can be just as shallow I never claimed all anime was good or anything like that. What I am claiming is that Sonic was a shounen anime from the start, and I'd rather it stay like that rather than get infected with current year western trends in cartoons. >Wow, sounds just like most characters this franchise has introduced. And this is an adaptation. It doesn't get the leeway of the course material to do that. Also, using the Deadly Six as one of your examples isn't helping you, since nobody likes them or the game they're from, including its story. Gaia, one could argue, fits somewhat with things like Chaos and Void. Additionally, everyone complained for years about Sonic games always creating new friends for Sonic. However, making a sequel or spinoff game with a new story which involves new characters showing up to drive the story forward is very different from doing an adaptation of a long running series and then introducing OCs that take up more attention than major characters from the source material. Just make an original series and stop wasting the money on licensing the adaptation, if you think people want to read about your OCs. Oh wait, they don't. People are interested in the series because it's based on a long running series, and they want to see stuff from that long running series. >Same with Whisper, who's only relation to Buddy from Forces is that they both use Wispons & nothing else, but besides that, is completely her own character. Yes. That is what I'm complaining about. I'm saying it would have been better if she was the Buddy from Forces. I'm not saying either character literally doesn't make sense existing, I'm saying that they don't have compelling reasons to exist. They're not characters from the source material that people are coming to this adaptation for, and they aren't particularly tied to things from the source material either. It's not a clever idea that springs out of the source material, it's just "I'm gonna make a new character." >lol, grow up My point exactly, faggot. >My point is that assuming everything related to this particular comic is "SJW affecting things" is just boring hysteria that has no basis in reality. It has plenty of basis in reality, and everyone knows it. By acting otherwise, you're going too far and making people not believe you're being sincere. The facts of the matter are so obvious that people can't ignore them even when they want to. Now, with this comic in particular, I'll admit it's not as bad as with other things, but given the way things are, I'm more suspicious than I may have been in like 2010. >If you can point to anything in IDW Sonic that's actually similar to something like "Ghostbuster '16" I'd love to see it, but right now, I'm not seeing it. It's been pointed out already. Nobody is claiming it's as blatant. It's just something that raises an eyebrow. For an example in the latest issue, thinking that Amy wanted to "prove herself" but Sonic and Tails never "gave her a chance." Fundamental feminist trope that doesn't mesh with Amy's actual character at all. It's a minor detail that ends up not affecting the story, and I liked the issue overall, but they just had to throw that in there, didn't they? Just having Amy be upset about being left behind again makes sense and works. Having her decide that she's going to get the Emerald to impress Sonic would make sense, and even the ending that the story has would make sense with that motivation. Saying she always wants to prove herself but they won't let her doesn't work, and is just pushing a stupid message that is pushed far too much in modern media, especially comics. >And even if they did "infest the comic," SEGA/Sonic has had plenty of stuff in their history that'd count as "SJW shit," so I dunno what to tell ya Not in the games, they haven't. I don't know about other stuff. Also, your quotation marks there are just betraying you as the dyed in the wool SJW cult member you are. >arguments of authority that whatever Sega does automatically "fits" with the series You're missing a point that's been explained to you many times. Everyone knows Sega has fucked up plenty of times, and using Forces of all things as your example is only proving my point, not yours. >certain concepts introduced in IDW Sonic (which honestly was just concepts already introduced/planned to be introduced in Archie Sonic Archie Sonic was much worse, yes. I don't know why you think pointing to that makes your argument better either. >or was introduced in the games already Uh, no. >the argument that these things don't belong in Sonic is just lunacy & there's nothing that really supports it, outside of just your dislike for it. Your argument that anything would fit as long as Sega says so is lunacy. Sega technically signed off on everything Ken Penders ever did on the series. Sega signed off on Sonic Underground. Do you think everything Marvel does with their fucked up comics fits with those series as well? Captain America was a nazi all along, that fits with the series because Marvel said so. Thor is unworthy of the name his mom and dad gave him because he's a shitlord, so his ex girlfriend gets his name and powers instead. Marvel said so, so it fits. No, fuck you. Corporations, or even individual authors who created a series, can still fuck up and do things that don't fit with what the series was or should be. But of course, my argument about Tangle and Whisper isn't that they don't fit, it's that I don't want OCs being so prominent in any licensed work. I don't buy a licensed product for things not from the source material.
>>24232 >Why? Is this something established in the Archie series? No. Nack, Bean & Bark didn't really have an established role in this Classicverse so this is something to help distinguish them from their Archie counterparts. >No, there are actual stylistic differences and you know it. I can agree that there's a stylistic difference in something like Steven Universe & IDW Sonic compared to your typical shonen like Dragon Ball, but to be perfectly honest, that's because of the inherently unique style of the writers, not much beyond that. Can a franchise that wears its influence on its sleeve come off as inauthentic compared to what they're influenced by? Sure, but that's not an issue IDW Sonic has ran into yet. >Also, using the Deadly Six as one of your examples isn't helping you, since nobody likes them or the game they're from, including its story. You don't have to like the Deadly Six dude, but they're an established part of the Sonic series & will probably continue to be an established part of the series for years to come. And as for the "Gaia/Void/Chaos" thing, of the 3 of them, Chaos is the only one who's relation to the story & Chaos Emeralds wasn't thrown in randomly upon his introduction, as he was hinted at back in S3&K. >Additionally, everyone complained for years about Sonic games always creating new friends for Sonic. And those complaints were stupid, for the most part. You can have problems with the execution of their story, but the Sonic franchise (like any other long-running series) is always gonna introduce new friends, new enemies, new zones & new mcguffins for their plot. >People are interested in the series because it's based on a long running series, and they want to see stuff from that long running series. And IDW Sonic (as well as many other external versions of Sonic) has given people shit from the long running series. Every Sonic media will have new characters that are exclusive to their world, locations that are exclusive to the world & things that makes it unique. IDW Sonic has been by far the closest a piece of external media has gotten to copying the games outright & it having something unique like Windmill Village, Tangle & Whisper has been a great thing for the comic because it gives the comic more life than just reusing everything from the games 100%. >I'm saying it would have been better if she was the Buddy from Forces. Tbh, I think the comic was better off not doing that. Not only is Buddy's main appeal solely tied to the fact that he's "your character," but Whisper has her own backstory, her own enemy in Mimic & she has ties to Eggman that justifies her continued appearances in the comic. The fact that she's been one of the most popular comic character ever introduced shows that they've made the right choice in making her a unique character, as opposed to just retreading old ground by bringing back Buddy. >My point exactly, faggot. You're so edgy >Saying she always wants to prove herself but they won't let her doesn't work, and is just pushing a stupid message that is pushed far too much in modern media, especially comics. I understand how you feel about wanting Amy's motivation to be more based around wanting to prove herself to Sonic rather than just "wanting to prove herself in general," but it's mostly because SEGA's made a concerted effort over the last decade to have Amy's motivations as a characters less centered 100% around Sonic & with the IDWverse not being 1:1 with the games, it allows them to push the idea that her love of & this falls in line with that. >Not in the games, they haven't. I don't know about other stuff. Also, your quotation marks there are just betraying you as the dyed in the wool SJW cult member you are. Depending on what you consider to be "SJW shit," tbh. Also, what? >using Forces of all things as your example is only proving my point, not yours Using the most recent mainline game in the series & what served as the initial launching point for the IDW comic is proving your point that any concept that SEGA vets & approves doesn't automatically belong in the series? >Archie Sonic was much worse, yes. I don't know why you think pointing to that makes your argument better either. Archie Sonic was only bad in that regard when SEGA wasn't actually paying attention to the comic, which allowed Ken Penders to do whatever he wanted. When SEGA actually got their eyes on the comic, they immediately started forcing Archie to clean their shit up & in turn was much, much better at representing the Sonic franchise. IDW Sonic has had SEGA keeping a close eye on it since day one, thus better serving in line with what SEGA wants out of the series & what fits the franchise. >But of course, my argument about Tangle and Whisper isn't that they don't fit, it's that I don't want OCs being so prominent in any licensed work. Well, sorry to say it, but that's gonna keep happening. Every piece of Sonic external media will have prominent OCs involved in the story, from AoSTH, to SatAM, to Archie Sonic pre-boot & post-boot, to Boom, to IDW, to the OVA, to Sonic X. Hell, Sonic Prime will probably have the same thing.
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new cover
>>24295 Is this for >>24202 or are they doing something new with Classic?
>>24296 it's for the same special, yes.
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IDW Sonic #42 storytime!
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>>24304 That's all today.
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>>24300 I've been waiting for this to drop, it seems to have been hyped up quite a bit. >>24301 Damn, is that Silver's garden from the Annual a couple of years ago? >>24302 >>24303 What the fuck even is that character? It feels so out of place. >>24304 Sonic felt great on this on the other hand, reminded me of Archie a lot and I love it.
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>>24306 >What the fuck even is that character? It feels so out of place. Some kind of ape? He apparently doesn't have an official name or anything, which is kind of weird since he's been part of the story in multiple issues now. Lanolin the Sheep and Meringue the Rabbit get names, but he doesn't?
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>>24307 >Lanolin the Sheep and Meringue the Rabbit image related >which is kind of weird since he's been part of the story in multiple issues now I only remember him in one issue where he told Belle or Tangle or someone else to fuck off because they made a mess in his workshop. >but he doesn't? He sticks out too much, it feels like he was made with some purpose specifically in mind. And he looks like a huge fag.
I really like Jewel. She's super cute.
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>>24308 >who Two background characters, one belonging to the Resistance/Restoration, and one that's just a random civilian.
>>24307 IIRC, it took awhile for Lanolin to get her name actually mentioned in the comics, since SEGA didn't see her as anything beyond a nameless background character during her initial appearances.
>>24239 >I can agree that there's a stylistic difference in something like Steven Universe & IDW Sonic compared to your typical shonen like Dragon Ball The problem is that this comic feels much more like Steven Universe than Dragon Ball, when the games do not. But also, and even more importantly, one of those influences is good, and the other is not. You can't just swap one for the other, but these people have. >You don't have to like the Deadly Six dude, but they're an established part of the Sonic series I never said they weren't. I like them being in the comics, as hopefully they can be fleshed out in ways the game couldn't do, but in ways that stem from the elements that are in the games. They've actually done okay with doing that in regards to Zavok so far. They need to do more of that. My point was that they were an awful example for you to use in that specific instance. >And as for the "Gaia/Void/Chaos" thing, of the 3 of them, Chaos is the only one who's relation to the story & Chaos Emeralds wasn't thrown in randomly upon his introduction, as he was hinted at back in S3&K. I don't think they even say Void is connected to the Chaos Emeralds. But my point was that they at least had some thematic and tonal connection to each other. >And those complaints were stupid, for the most part. I actually agree, but the point is that there are already a ton of characters that they could be using. So many characters that many people found it annoying. Creating even more ones in a spinoff adaptation in another medium isn't necessary and isn't helping. >And IDW Sonic (as well as many other external versions of Sonic) has given people shit from the long running series. Yeah, and that's why I'm here. Not for the OC shit. Ken Penders gave us more stories that had Knuckles in them, but they were heavily distracted from by all his OCs and stuff that wasn't from the games or even really building off of anything from the games. Just because this is to a lesser degree than that doesn't mean it isn't the same fundamental problem. >IDW Sonic has been by far the closest a piece of external media has gotten to copying the games outright Agreed, but that doesn't mean I can't still have issues with where it falters, especially when those are issues that have been heavily seen in adaptations of this franchise before. Especially when those are issues that have been heavily seen specifically in comic book adaptations of this franchise before. > it having something unique like Windmill Village, Tangle & Whisper has been a great thing for the comic because it gives the comic more life than just reusing everything from the games 100%. it having something unique like Windmill Village, Tangle & Whisper There's a very big difference between a fairly generic location that isn't very prominent anyway and adding a bunch of new main characters. >has been a great thing for the comic because it gives the comic more life than just reusing everything from the games 100%. Then why don't I just go read a Spider-Man comic, imagine it's called Sonic the Hedgehog, and think "wow, this is the best Sonic comic ever! It has so much more life, because it isn't just reusing everything from the games!"? Oh right, because the entire reason I'd want a licensed work is for things from the source material, not for OCs. There are very few exceptions in any licensed works where completely original concepts introduced are actually that great, and even then, most of the best examples are much more related to things from the source material. And frankly, much more well executed. >Not only is Buddy's main appeal solely tied to the fact that he's "your character," Well yeah, I wouldn't have done it either, but if Whisper has to be a thing, then that's how I'd play her, since at least it would have more of a connection to the source material, and cut down on her Mary Sue factor significantly. And when making a character literally just your OC from a game actually cuts down on the Mary Sue factor, that's saying something. >but Whisper has her own backstory, her own enemy in Mimic & she has ties to Eggman that justifies her continued appearances in the comic. Any character could (and should) be given a story that does that. However, in a licensed work, the character should also at least seem to spring logically or organically from the source material, if not being outright from the source material (which is much better).
>The fact that she's been one of the most popular comic character ever introduced shows... Absolutely nothing because nobody reads comic books anymore. Most people aren't even aware that comic books are still actively published, let alone Sonic comics, and if they have any knowledge of them, they're remembering the ones with Sally Acorn. >as opposed to just retreading old ground by bringing back Buddy. It wouldn't be retreading old ground because you could then show what happened to that Rookie after being surprisingly important in the war. However, I still wouldn't actually do this. I'm just saying that would be better than just having super special Whisper be Silver's Guardian Angel but also she's a tortured soul with a tragic backstory and she doesn't like to talk... I could keep going, but I'll get sued for copyright infringement by Deviantart and Fanfiction.net . >You're so edgy >Depending on what you consider to be "SJW shit," tbh. Also, what? Yeah, exactly. You're just continuing to prove my point. There's no way you organically got to 8chan while being this naive. You'd fit in much better on whatever SJW shithole you crawled out of. >Using the most recent mainline game in the series & what served as the initial launching point for the IDW comic is proving your point that any concept that SEGA vets & approves doesn't automatically belong in the series? Yes. Saying that anything Sega does "belongs" and then using a game that is widely reviled, both for its gameplay and its story (which comes off like a Deviantart fanfiction based on the Adventure-era games rather than actually capturing the feel of those games) is hilarious. Forces is a great example of how even things Sega is closely involved with can be ridiculously unfitting in the series. Just because they own the copyright doesn't mean they always understand it best. You might as well say that since the copyright holders of Ghostbusters made it, the 2016 version fits in the franchise just as well as, say, The Real Ghostbusters cartoon. Both weren't the original. Both were approved by the same copyright holders. That must mean they both fit! >When SEGA actually got their eyes on the comic, they immediately started forcing Archie to clean their shit up & in turn was much, much better at representing the Sonic franchise. It was less bad. That doesn't mean it got good at that. It took nearly a decade before a lawsuit forced them to get rid of all the discordant elements that Penders and others introduced. While I respect Flynn's attempts to polish those turds, and sometimes he did a decent job, it wasn't worth it. And even after that, the main characters were still the Freedom Fighters, from a show that was cancelled like 25 years earlier, so any kid picking up the comic wouldn't have any idea who they were, and wouldn't be getting the stuff that made them interested in the comic in the first place, that being the stuff that is in the source material. All that said, at least the Freedom Fighters were from a different adaptation, and not something that was just made up from whole cloth, so there's that in their favor. >Every piece of Sonic external media will have prominent OCs involved in the story, Which is funny, since other series don't have that in their adaptations. When I go to a Superman or Spider-Man movie, I get pretty much nothing but characters from the comics. And guess what? The ones that stray further from that are the ones that are worse. And it's that way with Sonic, too. The only reason the movie did well was because they showed one tiny ounce of respect for the source material when they backpedaled on the horrible redesign, and that one ounce of respect got a lot of attention. Now imagine if they just tried to actually make a Sonic movie the whole time, instead of doing stupid random shit and slapping minor Sonic-like elements into it? Imagine if they just actually respected the material that was so good and so successful that they decided it was good enough to pay money to get the license for it? If people wanted to see original elements, then you wouldn't need to pay for a license to a pre-existing series. You could just make your original product and own everything. It would be a lot smarter. But it doesn't happen in this case because the only reason people buy this comic or anything else Sonic related is because of Sonic and the core elements of his source materials, by far the most wide-reaching and successful materials he's in. It's not like this is a comic book first with a super successful movie or TV show that eclipses it. The comics have not eclipsed the games, so it's stupid to do things that pull the comics further away from the games.
>>24317 I feel like if they got called by name in the comics at some point I would remember, when was that?
>>24319 >Absolutely nothing because nobody reads comic books anymore. And yet IDW Sonic has still blown past any expectations IDW's had for it & is clearly doing pretty well in terms of sales. >It wouldn't be retreading old ground because you could then show what happened to that Rookie after being surprisingly important in the war. Not only would this be hard to pull off due to the Avatar not having a universal design & the entire appeal of the Avatar was that he couldn't have one, but they already made clear what happened with him. After Eggman was beaten, he went back to his normal life & didn't look back. At best, the only appropriate time to re-introduce the Avatar would've been during the Metal Virus arc because it affected the entire planet, but at that point, the only difference between re-using the Avatar & just sticking with Tangle/Whisper is that the latter was used in the comics first, which doesn't mean anything unless a concept introduced in something other than a Sonic game really bothers you for some weird reason. >You'd fit in much better on whatever SJW shithole you crawled out of. Boo hoo >Forces is a great example of how even things Sega is closely involved with can be ridiculously unfitting in the series. There's nothing about Sonic Forces that's actually ill-fitting for a franchise that has consistently shown throughout its history that it can tell mediocre stories that attempts to have darker moments sprinkled in. There is no ground Sonic Forces treaded that the franchise hasn't already treaded before & if anything, it sticking too close to familiar territory is part of its problems. >And even after that, the main characters were still the Freedom Fighters Post-reboot, the only Freedom Fighter that was even close to really being as prominent as the game characters was Sally & even then, she never had a story where she was the central character, often sharing time with Nicole or Sonic or some other character. The Freedom Fighter arc would've been the first time since the Countdown to Chaos issues that they were all actually on the same level of importance as the Sonic characters & those issues were cancelled along with the whole comic, because of Archie's incompetence. And as for "kids who pick up the comic," they're not that stupid that they need to be spoonfed every bit of info about why Sally mattered to the Sonic comics. If they enjoyed what they did in the comic, they were gonna like them, regardless of their lack of knowledge about Sonic SatAM's existence. >The only reason the movie did well was because they showed one tiny ounce of respect for the source material when they backpedaled on the horrible redesign, Yeah & went with a design that was still wholly unique to the movie, rather than just re-using Sonic's game design. And given that the movie directly ripped off Sonic X, gave Eggman a backstory & design that strayed extremely far away from his game self & gave Sonic a personality that was different from any of his interpretations from the games, but was still beloved by the majority of those who saw it & was the best-selling video game movie of all-time, it doesn't seem like these different elements really affected it, huh? The comics are not meant to "eclipse the games," that's never been the point of the comics. The comics exist for the same reason every other piece of external Sonic media exists, to give Sonic fans shit to enjoy in between game releases by keeping the franchise's name active. And for almost 30 years, Sonic comics have done their job & nobody (except Ken Penders) ever expected it to do more than that.


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