/liberty/ - Liberty

Gold, Property Rights, and Physical Removal


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Welcome to /liberty/ HHHPinochet 08/19/2019 (Mon) 22:30:01 ID:e35c08 No. 3 [Reply] [Last]
A board for discussing private property norms, Austrian-school economics, and natural rights. Refugees not welcome. Check out our bros at 9chan: https://9chan.tw/libertarian/
Edited last time by sangvinivs on 06/13/2020 (Sat) 22:14:15.
128 posts and 55 images omitted.
Just a heads up: Since the site has been going offline for random periods of time, and because not everyone wants (or knows how) to use the onion address on Tor, Acid has deployed a Tor2web proxy that allows anyone to access the onion link through their regular browsers without the need of additional software. The proxy is located at https://redchannit.net/, and from there you can access to and post on /liberty/ or any other board without problem. Proof in case you don't believe me: >>>/site/532
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2 flag requests at /monarchy/ I think there is a Mexican poster that likes Emp Maximilian I, so I recommended a flag for his sake.
testingu

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FAQ and QTDDTOT HHHPinochet 11/27/2019 (Wed) 11:32:59 ID:261585 No. 926 [Reply] [Last]
Criticisms of right-wing libertarianism, low effort gotchas, and unpopular opinions should be limited to this thread. You aren't owed attention or a platform to speak out against our views, any new threads attacking anarcho-capitalism will be deleted. COVENANT COMMUNITIES A lot of posters seem to be ignorant on what a covenant community is and what its implications are. A covenant community is a small, homogeneous, gated community with strict controls on who can and cannot enter, who can and cannot gain residency, and what conduct must be observed within the community. In other words, it is a privatized micro-ethnostate. The idea was popularized by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, attached are some select quotes from Hoppe explaining the covenant community in his own words: >there would be little or no “tolerance” and “openmindedness” so dear to left-libertarians. Instead, one would be on the right path toward restoring the freedom of association and exclusion implied in the institution of private property. There exists a legal principle known as estoppel, which says those who do not value or abide by a certain norm are not entitled to appeal to that norm in their own defense. Commies don't believe in property rights, so they have estopped themselves from appealing to property rights in their own defense. Therefore, there is no need for a covenant community to wait until the commie commits a trespass before physically removing it.
Edited last time by sangvinivs on 07/12/2020 (Sun) 13:06:58.
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>>3372 >>3399 >>3445 Oy vey, what's your encroachment of freedom here?
>>3445 Wikipedia is trash
>>3464 Only for the less technical articles.

Libertarian Constitutional Monarchy/Feudalism https://shamik.ooo/nya/ 08/02/2020 (Sun) 01:58:08 ID:69c866 No. 3473 [Reply] [Last]
What does /monarchy/ think of the concept of a Libertarian Constitutional Monarchy? Think as an example the USA with its original libertarian constitution—butt replace the President with an Emperor/Empress, the State governors with Kings/Queens and typical feudalism down to the county level. Democracy could be added to this neo-feudalism by giving the subjects of a given lord the power to choose the next lord from among the current lord's children via voting nya~
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>>3477 See, the thing is, I don't see how ancap resists the centralisation of capital and plutocracy. Hence my proposal nya~ >free markets break monopolies instead of forming them How is a free market maintained when apex capital doesn't like them? The biggest corporations simply become the government. How does a free market break Amazon/Facebook/Google? Most of their revenue doesn't actually come from subsidies and government contracts... and when they have enough power, why permit competition nya~? The problem I see with libertarianism/ancap is that they fear political monopoly, but ignore how economic monopoly can form even from a fresh libertarian start—and they become political monopoly through buying out the the political system nya~
>>3477 Of course, I left out banks, who in actually control the world right now as the apex authority. How would libertarianism deal with powerful banks that concentrate capital and rule through contract? Ultimately there needs to be someone at the top who technically owns everything. This person is public and cannot be bought... at least through money. This person is the final arbiter of justice in a society and responsible for enforcing the NAP nya~
Of course, 'inverted feudalism' is perhaps an alternative to people who still believe that power ultimately resides with the people, rather than through WILL/MIGHT. Tiered Democracy—Immune to most corruption as people personally know their politician nya~ 10 citizens elect 1 tier 1 representative 10 tier 1 representatives elect 1 tier 2 representative 10 tier 2 representatives elect 1 tier 3 representative 10 tier 3 representatives elect 1 tier 4 representative 10 tier 4 representatives elect 1 tier 5 representative ect, until you reach the President. Such a system doesn't need to follow any ideology however, all that would need to be defined is how/when elections are held and voting is done nya~

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"Corruption" Anonymous 07/27/2020 (Mon) 22:14:36 ID:b98c6b No. 3444 [Reply] [Last]
I've noticed how Marxist's goto tagline excuse is "corruption," and how often "corruption" is used as a weasel word or just bland excuse. The most blatant example is "Why did the Venezuelan government collapse? Oh, 'corruption.'" ( https://invidio.us/watch?v=IYfgvS0FA7U ) "European governments are so much less 'corrupt' than the U.S. or other governments around the world." There's no critical thought about how--say--maybe a ridiculously large government might be the cause of incredibly amounts of "corruption" or something. In other words, corruption is often defined in such a way that it allows the user to ignore root causes. That's not even getting into how would you even define 'corruption.' I've also noticed how a lot of international rankings have started including nebulous calculations and rankings of 'corruption' now. It seems like it's built into the rankings just to fix the conclusions they feel the indexes are 'supposed' to draw.
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>>3452 It surprises me how many people realize that's a terrible structure in any other context. If I were to tell a programmer that "This computer only works with the 'right' PCs," 99% of the time they'd likely say, "That sounds like pretty shit code." If I was telling you how to beat a level, and one way only 1% of people could do it, but another way was really noob-friendly and 90% of people could do it first-try, you'd see hwy the former method was a shit method. But when it comes to government, having a system that requires "the best people" always keep getting idealized!
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>>3478 Exactly. You can criticize people heavily on all kinds of things, but if you lightly brush on their political opinions, even the smartest people can become offended and start acting like immature children, that's also true for me, and especially for those who like to think they are super rational arbiters of everything objective, factual and logical. There's something about discussions on politics and religion, as well as the opposite sex and the dating market, that is so psychologically threatening to us, it's as if you aren't challenging someone's surface-level opinions but something else that's fundamental to the core of their being. So theoretically, if you can change the underlying psychology, or if you can identify their underlying values, motivators, traumas and desires, and change their attitude towards them, then the other higher level views they hold in regards to things like politics and economics will automatically change as well. I have personally always considered psychological healing and self-improvement to be a path towards libertarianism, but now I'm convinced of that more than ever.
>>3480 Are you sure it isn't something more engrained or even genetic? Because this concept of "We just need the right people in charge" has been around since Plato's Republic.

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OC Thread: Julay Edition Anonymous 10/22/2019 (Tue) 22:48:44 ID:fd811b No. 451 [Reply] [Last]

OC, fresh memes, and rare Aurelias.
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Flags of my covenant community. Don't steal.
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Random/Shitpost Thread Anonymous 01/23/2020 (Thu) 18:17:39 ID:481c8d No. 1601 [Reply] [Last]

Listen up kiddo. We need to have a little chat. You thought you could lurk around here just because you're a cool guy and we share the same worldviews? You thought /liberty/ was open and free for everyone? That's not how it works, pal. This isn't some hippie-dippie commie shithole. Nothing in life is free besides the cheese in a mousetrap. You gotta leave a post in this thread every time you visit the board if you wanna keep the lights on over here. Yes, I know, I know, but someone had to say it. You know how the economy is these days, it's tough for everyone. Don't make it more difficult for the rest of us, we all have to carry our own weight. We all have to do our part to keep the place running. There's no room for freeloaders around here. Leave something in this thread each time you visit the board and we can keep on being friends.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fy0RYpU8Q Please watch this before becoming another arrogant, cringy, stereotypical, smarter-than-thou redditarian. We don't impress anyone with our wealth of knowledge or correctness of statements.
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>>3471 I like this direction of calling governments corporations...

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U.S. Copyright, IP, Patents Laws and Public Domain Anonymous 07/28/2020 (Tue) 11:27:06 ID:b33574 No. 3450 [Reply] [Last]
Basically, what are the arguments for and against them? I'm rather ignorant on this subject, and I'm curious about what different arguments there are (with citations/evidence, because otherwise it didn't happen, so to speak). It seems to me that the issue isn't copyright law in itself*, but that it has been abused. I've also heard that anti-copyright legislation has actually helped corporations keep their IPs or something to that effect, but how can this be? *At least in the current system and the philosophical theories behind it, but that's another discussion. This is just about the current facts and what can be done or shouldn't be done about them.
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>>3450 It's just plain bad even for regular inventions. The first steam engine was a pain in the ass, broke often, and everybody and their grandma created fixes or even better steam engines, but couldn't sell them because they'd get jumped on. By the time Watts' patent expired, steam engine tech jumped several levels immediately as everyone fixed the stupid shit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lqDNeADXfCQ This episode of the scottish liberty podcast with Kinsella will tell you a lot.
>>3450 Even without copyright laws, I can see publishers requiring customers to sign contracts not to redistribute their works.

Anonymous 11/30/2019 (Sat) 12:01:19 ID:95a7c7 No. 983 [Reply] [Last]

Why aren't we voting for Sanders or Warren just to accelerate the collapse of the US dollar to make sure it happens under a socialist president?
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>>983 Voting for a commie jew? I don't think so.
shill thread
>Why aren't we accelerating the collapse of ...? Because it's better than nothing, and we've yet to complete an alternative. We're getting there, and when we get there, there won't be a need to collapse anything---if the alternative we make is better that the better-than-nothing crap we have now, people will switch. Because the crap we have now works, despite it's flaws, well enough to give us free time, we should use that time to work through to perfectly free alternatives.

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Anonymous 07/12/2020 (Sun) 01:38:04 ID:86ab55 No. 3321 [Reply] [Last]
Please post other libertarian forums, blogs, etc.. All I have are two podcasts from Bob Murphy and Jeff Deist once every couple weeks, and the four posts on this forum that isn't someone diaperposting. Being one of the remaining 12 libertarians in 2020 is kind of depressing.
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>>3412 In order to more accurately determine who is on our side without purity spiraling, we must use a combination of two much more reliable heuristics: >1. Do they want to move in the general direction of freedom? This is super simple. Regardless of how wrong their views are, we must judge people by their relative position on the statist/libertarian spectrum, not their absolute one. No one is perfect, we can nitpick at everything and anything, but that is childish and counterproductive. As long as they are moving towards more wealth and power to the individual and less to the state and those associated with it, that should be good enough. With this, we can make strategic alliances with groups that take us further to our goals, instead of compromising on 20 libertarian positions just to gain a few more leftists on our side, which is what the US Libertarian Party has been doing for years. >2. Why are they actually libertarian? This is the most fundamental libertarian interview question, and the correct answer doesn't really have anything to do with Rothbard or economics, but with the very soul of libertarianism - master morality, without it libertarianism simply won't have a reason to exist. A true libertarian doesn't even have to know they are libertarian, but they are libertarian at heart because they value elitism, exclusivity, selfishness, competence, individualism, difference, the glorious, etc... and they can support libertarianism because they are chads who want to live among other chads, they will naturally produce freedom in society as a side-effect of badassness, even if they don't know any libertarian book, or are too low IQ to understand economics. This is all in contrast to fake libertarians, who produce communism as a side-effect of being wretched losers, despite having read all the right libertarian books, and memorized all the correct arguments to btfo leftards with facts and logic, but they themselves are leftists at heart, because they are driven by the primary leftist motivator - ressentiment, and its values: egalitarianism, inclusivity, altruism, democracy, collectivism, uniformity, the pitiful, etc... they either mistakenly presume that libertarianism is supposed to force these leftist ideals onto the rest of us uncivilized barbarians, or are knowingly sowing populations and organizations with slave morality to harvest socialism later on. /blogpost
>>3426 >altruism Altruism is what leads to private charity. It is not a bad thing except when it is forced by the State in the form of the welfare.
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>>3431 Yes, genius, thanks for taking the opportunity to point out the obvious. No one is saying that there won't be private charities or that they should all be banned or something. There's nothing wrong with it from an ethics point of view, just like there's nothing unethical about suicide or letting someone else fuck your wife, the real question is why would you do it? Who really benefits from your voluntary sacrifice? We aren't arguing ethics here, we are arguing morals, but ethics do follow morals, so from a master/chad morality point of view, self-sacrificial behaviour is retarded, it is spiritual socialism which either manifests as real socialism or as naive self-sabotage for someone else to succeed where you voluntarily chose to fail. There's no justifying altruism from an ancap point of view. Human beings are transactional creatures, if we give away something for free, we are either making an investment of some sort, or we are exchanging it for less obvious currencies like trust or favour (for example). But what's the point of life, liberty and property if we are all supposed to voluntarily kill ourselves to "save the planet", give up our freedoms for the convenience of others, and give away all our wealth and property so someone else can own it? Only socialists and losers want this, that's why they have been pushing this into our culture since the Frankfurt School if not earlier. And btw this is how charity is supposed to work: The ancap chad living by a master morality doesn't do charity simply because he was memed into "doing the right thing", he does it because he ultimately helps himself and his own, because he gains more from helping others than others do from receiving help. Trouble in his family, his community, his neighbourhood, his city, his country, his life, etc... are a stain on his glory. He takes on extra responsibilities and other people's burdens as a means of magnifying himself - bigger risks mean bigger rewards, and if he succeeds, then he comes out with that much more power and influence in the world. It's all about HIM and his things, it's never about someone else, such is the way of the ancap chad. Don't like it? Sorry, but you're a loser (socialist) if that's the case.

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Anonymous 07/06/2020 (Mon) 11:25:35 ID:d3f3cf No. 3268 [Reply] [Last]
In anglolands, I notice the slave- I mean normal people have blue eyes, while the rich have brow eyes. Why?
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>>3268 By the way, does that story in your pic have a continuation ?
>>3268 >that art I think I recognize that artist.
>>3408 >I think I recognize that artist. Can please share the artist's name ? Thanks.

Charter Cities Anonymous 07/22/2020 (Wed) 19:48:43 ID:aa45ba No. 3424 [Reply] [Last]
What about them? The idea is "Governance as a Service", you sign up in a city to either live there or start a business, and enter a contract which is also the permanent law, no unilateral changes possible. Taxes are nonexistant, instead you pay a yearly fee. The city guarantees security, infrastructure and so forth, and that's it. Your disputes with the city are subject to common law and would take place in front of international arbitration courts. This one is launching in the current year on a Honduran island, it's not quite the full package but it's a very solid start. https://prospera.hn/ https://econamericas.com/2020/07/first-charter-city-honduras-prospera-revives-zedes/ They see themselves in line with "special economic zone" cities / city-states like Hong Kong, Singapore, Monaco, or historical merchant cities like Venice. Personally i think this idea has great potential, it's the apolitical solution: Cities like these tend to be extremely economically successful (like Hong Kong for example), attract freedom- and business-minded people and silently grow into powerful economical hubs with top tier living standards
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>Every economic advisor ever. "How about maybe allow 0.00000000001 in^2 of your land not have all the same laws as the rest?" >How every country implements a charter city. "THIS 0.0000000000000000000001 IN^2 WILL HAVE FIVE CORPORATIONS WE WILL GIVE SUBSIDIZED LOANS FOR." >Five years later LOLBERGS BTFO, ALL THEIR CHARTER CITIES FAIL AND SHOW THE FAILURE OF NEOLIBERAL LIBERTARIAN CONSERVATISM.
>>3427 >I'm slightly worried about host governments devouring the cities I noticed this thing via a german longform interview with Titus Gebel, who wrote "Free Private Cities" and is involved in this. He used to be chairman of Deutsche Rohstoff AG, which does large scale mining operations in foreign countries. He explains how you have to plan at least 20 years ahead in that business while investing very large sums, potentially in politically unstable shitholes. Since these companies don't want to lose billions of dollars whenever some local militia topples the current leadership and seizes all property or whatever else, there are well established international investment protection agreements and contracts for such situations, and those will be used for this project, and similar ones.
>>3424 That is LITERALLY the exact same idea of "covenant communities" proposed by Hans-Hermann Hoppe

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