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Vidya Gaems

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Non-licensed Superhero games Anonymous 04/12/2021 (Mon) 23:26:10 Id:10953d No. 283672
Post'em : superhero games not based on an existing license or IP from a media outside of vidya. Doesn't matter if we're talking good or shit, western or eastern.
>>283672 Why would you post a Prototype image that contains the shitty second game? Ignoring that Prototype is also an interesting case for this thread since it was based off the same engine as a previous licensed Hulk game though I'm not sure if the change was due to losing the license or if they just wanted to make their own thing.
>>283678 Honestly it feels really close to said Hulk game, I remember seeing that as a criticism of it when the game first game out.
Posting, this has a TCG connected to it as well I think but considering you posted Champions which is based off a P&P RPG I figure it is fair game.
>>283678 >Why would you post a Prototype image that contains the shitty second game? Read the filename for the image I put. 8^D >it was based off the same engine as a previous licensed Hulk game though I'm not sure if the change was due to losing the license or if they just wanted to make their own thing. It's not the first time a dev re-used not only game engines but ideas present in a licensed game they had to do in order to bring out the best for their creative vision. Prototype's just one of those games and Radical should probably be thankful they got to do Hulk first because they might have flunked it if Prototype came out without prior know-how. >>283680 Honestly, Prototype feels like either a Symbiote Hulk game or the type of gameplay Venom was promised to have in Ultimate Spider-man, given what was going on in the Ultimate cuckmics at the time I know what I wrote, fucking Bendis was writting Spider-man at the time
I too want to play as the Empress of Back Pain and her faithful sidekick, Atomic Cunt Wedgie.
Gravity Rush is one of the only good games (or rather, two of the only good games) in the last decade. Interesting and original mechanics that are inherently fun to use, fun locations to explore, good challenges to do, nice visual and music styles, and a good story though it gets pretty retarded by the end. Also, Kat is best waifu, and it's nice to see a superhero story where the superhero is just a nice person who wants to help, instead of angsty bullshit or a self righteous cunt that acts more like a villain than a hero. Speaking of angsty bullshit, you have InFamous, though I do still like it. The first game is okay but it's pretty simple and the "morality"/alternate path system is incredibly simple and pointless. The second game takes the same concepts but makes everything feel much more substantial, and actually makes it worth playing through to see both the good and evil routes. InFamous Second Son and its standalone DLC, First Light, are both okay (First Light does have a lot of content for a standalone DLC), but they aren't as good as InFamous 2. InFamous 2 also has standalone DLC where you become a vampire, and it's fun, but pretty short.
>>283745 Both of those characters were killed in less than 10 years by Sony.
Th
>>283750 InFamous Second Son was already approaching poz territory, though it had the nerve to make the main villain a woman, which would never happen today. That said, any later sequels would be horrible. Sony shut down its whole Japan studio, so we'll never see another Gravity Rush, and again, maybe it's better that way. While I will miss Kat and the world that was built, maybe some day some of the devs or even just some fans can make a game with similar gameplay, because the gameplay is very unique, and it's what I'd most like to see again.
Give Superhero League of Hoboken a try. It's presented as an RPG, with stats and leveling and random encounters, but it's mostly just window dressing and the main meat of the game is a point & click adventure game where you use insanely useless "superpowers" (like a Mexican who can eat the spiciest foods with no distress) in unique or highly specific situations to foil the villains. Has a kind of Mystery Men feel to it, but actually has some humor to it.
>>283672 Wasn't champions online based on an old PnP game?
>>283672 Sonic Blast Man 1 & 2 on the Snes. Cosmo Police Galivan, also on the Snes. Hagane, also on the Snes. E-Swat on Mega Drive.
>League of maidens Are you sure that game isn't a scam?
I dont think this necessarily qualifies as a super hero game but its art style is reminiscent of it. It is very cheesy and one could be forgiven for thinking it is a Samurai Showdown rip off (which it is). I however still like it, enjoy some ost's in it, and enjoy playing it.
>>283876 It is out, and playable. It's not good, and has phone game tier UI. I reserve scam for things that are basically selling JPEGs and promises of a game to come. That being said, it still connects to a back end server so if the like 3 dudes making it fold any money you put in (Why would you do this?) will basically be (even more) wasted.
This game is so fucking weird, apparently it was made by many of the same people that worked in Moon RPG, and some Human titles.
>>283902 >>283876 Ignore anything with advertising like that. Ideally, you would ignore anything with advertising.
>>283773 No idea, I couldn't find anything linking it but I admit I didn't search as hard. >>283831 >Hagane, also on the Snes. Fuck, I forgot. >>283767 Where was the pozz in Second Son? Was it because of the drugged-out-of-her mind hobo laser bitch? Because the DLC was pozz more than anything, at least you could go and be Bitch Trainer in the main game which was quite something for a western game back then. >>283876 >Are you sure that game isn't a scam? Why, you're looking to play it through official means? But I can see what you mean >>283903 I wonder how many people here still remember the threads where we had about Captain Rainbow being the true forgotten hero of the Wii. Or were around those days.
Are the Infamous games worth emulating? >>283876 >>283672 What disgusting, unrealistic, pedophile tier depictions of super HERoes.
>>283936 >Are the Infamous games worth emulating? The first two for sure. The second one even more so. Third has neat powers and a very neat idea about how it approaches multiple powers and the movesets it get but everything else is very meh and it screams "PS4 Launch Title" >HERoes Kek. I would be more disturbed by that shit but I already knew about it and the supposed "controversy" around it and the woman responsible for its "atrocious, anti-feminist, pedophilic redraw"I also posted that and the FemBroly pics in another thread some time ago How much you wanna bet that this will be your new She-Hulk in the upcoming Hackvel Cinematic "Universe"?
>>283929 >Where was the pozz in Second Son? I said it was approaching poz. More than the previous games, but nothing very explicit. I'm sure if we got a new entry, we'd see Second Son as the beginning of the downfall. As it stands, I'd still say it's pretty good. Even First Light is pretty good, despite knowing that it was the devs testing the waters for making a full on SJW protagonist.
>>283955 It's probably for the best then that we got Ghost of Kojima then. I hated First Light though. Never have I seen a character, who's main gimmick is to half-ass copy powers and use them half-hazzardly, would be a more fun character to play as than the originator of these powers. And I'm not talking about Delsin's multi-powers gimmick, just about how Delsin uses Neon as he does.
>>283956 >half-hazzardly
>>283991 Mistakes like that are a diamond dozen in this doggy dog world.
>>283876 >chuck art
>league of maidens finally out >check reviews & tons of people warn it has something in it Not surprised, pretty sure that "game" was a paywalled patreon piece of shit & I think it may have also had a kickstarter I'm not sure. They took like four years to make this shit & then they uploaded malware into it great.
>>283686 Wait, Freedom Force isn't just a pair of video games?
>>283876 Are her comics any good? I recall she has no connection to the game other than the devs paying to get her put in it since shes big in the cheesecake artist sphere.
>>284120 hell if I know, I just like beeg amerikan tetties.
Are there any super hero games that are actually any good out there? I'm so burnt out on capes that I don't know if I want to see anything from the genera ever again.
>>284130 Most of the ones posted in this thread.
Rent A Hero for Genesis got translated a little while back. Be a hero, get paid >>283773 yes it was. It even got a spinoff comic book with scenarios in the back one kind of cool thing it did was portray battlemaps from the top and two sides so you could get an idea of where you were in 3D space
>>284153 Isn't there a Dreamcast or XBOX remake of this?
>>284170 Nigger someone posted it already. >>283757
>>284130 Like >>284131 said but if you want on games based on existing licenses, try the ones made by Capcom, Konami etc from back in the SNES-PS2 eras, they were great. And that includes some japanese heroes like Kamen Rider and Metal Heroes an example being PS2's Kamen Rider Seigi no Keifu which is a pretty nice RE / Onimusha 1 clone.
>>284120 >>284121 I should start reading these.
>>283672 >Champions Online. That shit used to be fun then Craptic put a troon brony that is into gore ( I shit you not ) in charge of game design and everything became a fucking grind and all the new events had to be grim dark. So all the crazy fuckers that used to hold costume contests or run TT ( a raid of sorts) with randoms just all fucking left on mass. Game is now a ghost town and that is a fucking crime against gaming because CO had the best crazy bastards of any mmo.
>>284266 >Craptic put a troon brony that is into gore ( I shit you not ) in charge of game design and everything became a fucking grind and all the new events had to be grim dark. I'm sorry to hear that anon. I was hoping that something by the City of Heroes/Villains would end up good but I guess the California virus gets them all by the end. Shame it had to go like that instead of embracing the cheesy fuckery the tie-in comics of CoH had and passed as srs biznz
>>284439 Don't forget Web of Shadows.
>>283745 First light is not really dlc, it had a physical release in several countries. >>283767 >infamous second son >pozz No, the main character is supposedly a native american yet he looks white as fuck, the villain is a woman like you said and the game doesn't bother to paint the purple haired goblina that stars in the dlc in a good light, the protagonist himself calls her out on her bullshit when she explains the motivation behind her killings (became a junkie, killed her brother over drugs, now she kills drug dealers), dude flat out says no one shoved drugs down her throat nor forced her at gunpoint to kill her brother. There's also this one part in the game where you're chasing her and find her hideout, and delsin says the killer has to be a woman because the shoes and underwear left there are tiny, this kind of shit obviously wouldn't fly in troonmerica 2021.
>>284247 I tried to read those online, and either pages were missing, or the pacing is all over the place. It went from a college girl and the Goddess Athena fusing together, to fighting egyptian gods, to fighting ninjas and egyptian gods with no scene presentation in just three issues. Story goes faster than Sonic on cocaine.
>>283672 Obligatory. >>283903 Apparently some of the developers that worked on Captain Rainbow also worked on the Tingle spinoff games, that's why they've got some weird atmosphere.
Pic related is what I wish we'd have gotten a game out of some mad lads who do pc gaymes in Japan. Wish the Undefeated dudes would have made a joke game about it at least. >>284891 I feel deep shame that I forgot to add that.
>>284541 I barely remember Second Son, but I thought the native american tribe adopted him or something?
>>284915 They had character shill videos bragging about Delsin Rowe being part of the Akomish Tribe and they consulted experts and some bullshit like that, when you just see some brown tanned-skinned version of Troy Baker and Travis Willingham.
>>284915 >>284918 They did the same shit with Tommy from Prey, they are supposedly not "pure" natives aka either mommy or daddy were hwite. The old woman that takes care of both Rowe brothers, named Bettsy, is a proper native but she's old enough to be their grandma so it also serves as kind of the link between them and the tribe or something.
>>284541 >First light is not really dlc, it had a physical release in several countries. I called it "standalone DLC" because it's not a full game, it's the same city as previously, with pretty much the same (or some of the same) powers, but new tasks to do with them. Getting a physical release is good, but it's still basically standalone DLC. >this kind of shit obviously wouldn't fly in troonmerica 2021. Well yeah, but all I'm saying is that it was moving in that direction. A lot of things I love, in retrospect, were moving in this direction, and I tolerated and even loved them for years, but I can still see what happened. Coco Bandicoot is best waifu, but she is still just the PC replacement for Tawna, and ultimately lead down the cultural path that lead to Tranny Tawna in Crash 4. But yes, I did and do still recommend Second Son, and even First Light, which I was actually very impressed with given it was always advertised and priced as standalone DLC. They're not as good as 2, but they're better than 1, and First Light is a hell of a lot better than that vampire (standalone?) DLC that came out after InFamous 2. >>284915 I'm pretty sure nothing like that is actually said in the game. But just like in real life, having aboriginal ancestry means nothing to modern people except a false sense of entitlement for free gibs. Delsin is still just a Seattle hipster and doesn't act any different or anything. Of course if he did, it would be racist.
>>284130 The marvel ultimate alliance games were good. First one on ps2 and the second one is on ps1 and ps2. The 3rd one for the switch is different from the others but still fun to play alone or with a friend. Lots of challenges, characters and moves that can clash with eachother to fuck everything up. I was VERY surprised by it.
>>285106 >the second one is on ps1 and ps2 I'm retarded, ps2 and ps3.
>>283672 >Prototype Looks fun to be an edgy polyp, but the PC ports are abysmal for my current year toaster.
>>284266 Was a beta tester for CO. Shit still hurts how they fucked it all up.
>>284120 >Are her comics any good? They are just bland. Protagonist is a college aged girl who gets gifted power of Athena. Athena is some otherworthly demigodess from a world or dimension loosely based on Greek, Egyptian, and other mythologies. Her powers set is just a flying brick with some magical abilities she mainly uses to power up allies. Bad guys are superpowered criminals and demigods with ties to Athena who are trying to gather magical artifacts hidden around Earth to grow more powerful. Comic got a lot of money on crowdfunding platforms mainly due to backlash against Marvel's heavy push towards pozz. >>284907 >Powergirl and Supergirl >Not Powergirl and Terra Japs have some catching up to do. Palimotti and Conner PG is one of the rare few decent cape comics.
>>285384 Yes, but Powergirl and Supergirl allow for multiversal doppelganger lesbians, which is okay, because it's technically not gay and is just masturbation.
>>285185 The game got released on PC in 2009. How bad is your toaster?
>>285401 It's a Ryzen 7 1700 + an RX 580, but the game crashes every time when I even start the program.
>>283672 >Prototype >game where you play what is basically the Thing >superhero game Where's the hero part? You're essentially a horror movie monster.
>>285429 The Thing is a superhero, anon.
>>285429 I would say it would still count as it is a game about a super villain. >>285430 They did not mean that Thing you fucking spaz.
>>285106 >>285108 I think the two got rereleased on pc and newer consoles but I heard there were some drawbacks to them, not sure what in general was changed really.
Is Untouchable ever going to get a followup? It was so promising. >>285106 How odd, I always thought Ultimate Alliance 3 was that shitty square enix game that bombed recently.
>>296358 >How odd, I always thought Ultimate Alliance 3 was that shitty square enix game that bombed recently.
>>296373 Give the guy a break, both have the Avengers and both of them use beloved interpretations of those characters from other media. >MUA3 uses the old cartoons and Avengers Asemble as the base <Avengers uses discount look-alikes to the Marlel films as a vehicle for Kamala Khan Each fanbase got exactly what they deserved with those games.
>>291711 PC re-release doesn't have modding support, which, by the way, the modding on the original version of MUA has such an amazing scene. They've managed to get a fully functioning character slot extender working, which means you can jam as many capes as you'd like <to a degree> without replacing existing characters
>>291711 Yeah the first game is kind of a clusterfuck, Wii, PSP and PS2 have an exclusive character each, which PS3 and 360 don't have, however the 360 got a "gold" release with 8 new characters and a new campaign (featuring galactus) that the others don't have. The devs themselves acknowledged how much of a mess this was so they remastered the game for PS4, which has the gold additions plus the PSP character, but it still lacks the PS2 and Wii ones. And to top it off the 360 gold release is hard to find AND expensive due to having all the DLC on disc+said new additions, while the PS4 remaster can't be bought anymore due to licensing (and never got a physical release). So basically you need either a 360 or PS4 with custom firmware in order to pirate, that or just settle for the inferior PC release. >>296423 MUA3 uses characters from just about every setting; nick fury is the nigger from the movies, the avengers seem to come from the 2010 cartoon, spider-man is from the 2018 game, star lord and his pals are from the comics, venom is from the fucking web of shadows game, blade is also from the movies, spider-nog and spider-shaved sidecut are from the spider-verse movie, psylocke has the design from the marvel VS games etc.
>>296591 >an exclusive character each It was the trend at the time from Activision to get you to triple dip at times, mostly used as a way to excuse the port to inferior hardware. Most of the time it wasn't worth it but MUA1 on the PSP was a fine enough port on its own thankfully and so was the Justice League game of that era and some of the characters were quite welcome only got the Justice League game on PSP just to play with the Superwaifu As for how one's gonna pirate, you said it; it's a mess but thankfully like >>296502 mentioned, for MUA1 there's a nice mod scene to make a proper "Ultimate edition". >MUA3 uses characters from just about every setting; nick fury is the nigger from the movies, the avengers seem to come from the 2010 cartoon, spider-man is from the 2018 game, star lord and his pals are from the comics, venom is from the fucking web of shadows game, blade is also from the movies, spider-nog and spider-shaved sidecut are from the spider-verse movie, psylocke has the design from the marvel VS games etc. And more than you think : >Nigger Fury is actually the same VA and character from the Ultimate Spider-man cartoon >Blade is actually modeled and voiced from the Marvel Anime series >Kamala uses her english VA from her Avengers Anime appearance and moveset >So does Carol Danvers and even has the same VA as well >The cast of X-Men looks like the 90s X-Men but has the entire cast of Wolverine and the X-Men resent on account of the old cast retiring and Cyclops' actor passing away a few years ago It's a fucking wild ride. Also : MARVEL ULTIMATE ALLIANCE 4 NEVER EVER!
>>297053 >MUA3 pulls from every corner of Marvel Its as if Nintendo and KT decided it is better to cater to ALL the fans instead of a tiny retarded sub set.
>>297057 It wasn't that hard anyways, nips love the 90s cartoon, loved PS4-man,loved Wolverine and the X-Men, Avengers Assemble, MvC and they made the Marvel Anime with quite a bit of love, even allowing Quesadilla to oversee them, which should tell you something, given how much of a fucknut that man is. And then they added things that Marvel told them : Guardians, the Marvels, Spiderpeople etc so they took from the sources they liked : their anime, the Spiderverse etc. The few times they were stumped were with Elsa Bloodstone and I believe the Inhumans. Heck, there was an interview I think, were Hayashi and Koinuma yes, THAT Yosuke Hayashi mentioned how Marvel gave them the first draft and KT said that if the X-Men aren't in the game, the contract is void and Nintendo backed them up. So of course Activision isn't gonna have them release a MUA4, releasing fun products, with proper game modes and actually good DLCs isn't part of their modus operandi nor is Marvel happy about how little SJW-isms are in the game. Why do you think they keep sinking money in SE's Avengers? Why do you think the initial game was pulled from SE's contract but Marvel found a loophole via Crystal Dynamics&Eidos, just so they could have access to that sweet SE money?
>>285414 I had a pretty good time with the full superhero shit in Saints Row IV when it was out for free even though it obviously made vehicles pointless but to punt around.
>>297057 Was it published/funded by Nintendo? because if not I cannot see why they wouldn't release it on PC and give us a decent marvel superhero game(besides the lego one) on the platform. Fuck me not even Ultimate Destruction is on PC(yeah Prototype's close enough but still)
>>297082 >Was it published/funded by Nintendo? Yes. Nintendo basically asked Marvel if they can have the license from Activision and they paid for it.
>>297082 Yup Nintendo went after the MUA3 license. And it sold decent enough numbers compared to it's budget so there is a good chance the Nintendo/KT version of Marvel will get another entry.
>>297221 >And it sold decent enough numbers compared to it's budget And that was before the DLC, which drew a fair number of people in with the X-Men and F4 one. The Marvel Knights DLC was sadly ignored at first despite Morbius, Blade and Moon Knight being surprisingly good. However, you're using logic and following the money instead of thinking like Marvel, so unless Marvel and Disney somehow decide that money >>>>> agenda, I don't see it happening, especially when KT and Nintendo mouthed them off regarding the "No X-Men" rule that was in effect when the game was first announced. On the other hand though, maybe things aren't too bad, Nintendo seems to be picking up superhero licenses again, they got the exclusive deal for Lauren Faust's human ponies, the Supergirls stuff. Granted they got fucking Toybox to develop it, so there's that... There's a funny story regarding the development of MUA3, so take it with a grain of salt : the game has a few designers on board, the concept artists are from either Marvel or former western devs, to give the nips a clear visual of what the superheroes should look like in the game. Apparently one of them mouthed of to the 3D modelers and artists at KT that >We don't want you to disrespect our heroes and balloon their tits like you do for your fighting games so the Tecmo designer told him >That's absolutely fair. We won't touch the characters breasts at all <All the characters in the game and the art from the nips somehow has a fatter ass than the concepts drawn from the westerners Said artist is said to be the guy who drew the Fire Emblem Warriors new outfits and was responsible for the initial designs of the twins. You know the ones : where both were blue haired twins and had an ax and a lance as weapons.
>>297089 >>297221 Ah, shame. I'd love to play it at some point and I have no idea how well it emulates. >>297247 >>We don't want you to disrespect our heroes and balloon their tits like you do for your fighting games >so the Tecmo designer told him >>That's absolutely fair. We won't touch the characters breasts at all <All the characters in the game and the art from the nips somehow has a fatter ass than the concepts drawn from the westerners That's hilarious but I doubt anyone involved in that story would actually say it in public were it real.
>>297267 I'm pretty sure Switch emulation is the absolute best out of this gen. I think it's the multiplatform switch titles that bork during the emulation but I'm not 100% certain. >That's hilarious but I doubt anyone involved in that story would actually say it in public were it real. Undoubedtly, but it was going around nip sites at the time as a joke, so maybe there's some crediblity nip devs do go on imageboards a lot more than western ones after all. Then again, the way nips retell events in a dry manner often makes it difficult to see if they're sarcastic or if it's true unless it's something as absurd as the time Kojima was telling Suda about how he wanted Johnny to take a nervous shit while Raiden was shimming below him, instead of just a piss but Konami stopped him.
More like league of unity assets
>>308881 >super speed animation is just running scaled up a hundred times to the point where it looks choppy due to the framerate Brilliant.
>>297247 For those who keep posting those "western vs Japanese design" pics, this is why people prefer Japanese design.
>>308943 The Japanese never forgot what comics are about. Funny people with dumb powers fighting evil. Thats all people want to see when they pick up a comic book. The American comic industry forgot this important fact.
>>308881 wtf it looks like that mobile sniper ad. And that bloom and chromatic abberation. How the fuck is this raising millions?
How the fuck does champions Online still function with like only 2 active devs? The fuck is wrong with that company? The fuck is wrong with the people still playing it? The fuck is wrong with anyone still whaling for that shit? I know they bought the Champions PnP IP when Marvel fucked em over and bailed out halfway into thheir "Marvel Online". but shit i would rather see that game closed down than the sorry shit it is now.
>>283936 I enjoyed playing 1 and 2 on my modded PS3. >>285431 >they
>>309170 >How the fuck is this raising millions? Sex, sales.
>>308881 >>309170 Shameless fanservice trying to cover up for what is pretty obviously a shitty game is very amusing to me.
>>308881 According to a review, the character creation has 11 boob sliders and 7 butt sliders, and even PUSSY sliders, because there's also a 30$nude patch. >>309099 In general, yeah. It's way more nuanced, though. Customer orientation is a factor, to a point editors will clash with artists/writers to put in shit that's popular over shit that makes sense: see also Hitsugaya getting face time in Bleach, Android 17 & 18, Sailor Senshi not dying in the first arc permanently, Sesshoumaru, etc. Titles live & die on popularity. They are also self-contained stories, and all crossover efforts are left entirely to ad promotionals and public venue shit, like character spots in various mobage shit or like in Phantasy Star Online—the most extreme case is Super Heroine Chronicle & the Spuer Robot Wars franchise. There's also the work ethic to consider. It takes a figurative month for western artists to storyboard, sketch a draft, correct & stencil, ink, finish, color, bubble, script, and polish something like a 15pg issue. Japan will have 1/3 to double the page count in a week's time because mangaka by and large are chained to their desks (except for rockstars like Berserk's author, or the one who does HunterxHunter who basically takes whole holidays to go fuck his hot Sailor Moon wife nonstop). Basically East dominates west because their stories actually END instead of dragging on endlessly, their work ethic is insanely larger, they cultivate and cater to their fandoms (and when they don't, there's book burnings—never forget The Sacred Blacksmith, Haruhi, and Kannagi), and have zero problems creating and testing new IP as opposed to throwing tokens into familiar outfits and pretending what was a comic identity can now just be a hand-me-down label. >>308881 Isn't this game a bot mining network? I looked up some gameplay and wow it actually looks like shit >>309271 Probably. >>309268 Now that's the future of character creation. >>309268 >PUSSY sliders >PUSSY Finally, the game to rival the greatest MMO of all time. >>309306 Fuck me, that looks so trashy and tacky. I get liking boobs and beautifull women, I even get and like pandering to some extent. But when you go from "game with porn bundled" to "porn with game bundled", you've made a serious fucking mistake. >>283876 How do you call yourself a professional artists when you can't even draw tits right? Why do they look like balls with little to no gravity applied to em? >>309376 Professional artists like fake tits too sometimes, anon. >>309306 >made with the Unreal engine 4 >looks like a Unity Asset flip >>309376 Are you the same type of fag who complains about the superior taste of lemon tits? >>309271 >It takes a figurative month for western artists to storyboard, sketch a draft, correct & stencil, ink, finish, color, bubble, script, and polish something like a 15pg issue. Japan will have 1/3 to double the page count in a week's time because mangaka by and large are chained to their desks (except for rockstars like Berserk's author, or the one who does HunterxHunter who basically takes whole holidays to go fuck his hot Sailor Moon wife nonstop). Note that usually the part that slows everything down in the west is 'pencils,' which is the basic process of drawing the pages, but not inking them. Scripts are usually done by a different person, inks are usually done by a different person, and lettering is usually done by a different person. All of those people are expected to produce more than one issue per month. But the penciller is expected to take about one month. Also, sometimes layouts are done by a different guy as well. That's rarer, but it's not uncommon, so the penciller isn't even coming up with the design of the pages, he's just taking very rough sketches (equivalent to storyboards) and making them look nice. Then another guy, the inker, is supposed to make them look nicer (but it isn't uncommon for the inker to actually fuck them up. And then sometimes the colorists and letterers fuck things up too). Also, even today comics are still usually about 22 pages long. They used to be much longer, but got down to like 25 pages by the '70s, and have lost a couple extra pages since. But 15 is underselling. Note that there are guys like Jack Kirby. Kirby was able script and draw four or five issues per month. However, I'm pretty sure he still didn't do inks, colors, or letters by himself usually. But he did have consistent output of drawing like 100 pages per month, which is pretty damn impressive, especially since his art is considered some of the greatest in the business. He's generally considered the greatest of all time, though, (not just due to his drawing ability, but his overall skill at producing good comics) and few come anywhere close to matching him. Manga, meanwhile, usually also has assistants who sometimes draw everything except for the main characters in a scene. Color is not usually expected, and page counts are typically lower. Though it's hard to judge exactly since many manga release weekly rather than monthly, which much shorter page counts. British comics used to come bi-weekly as a rule, and thus would need twice as much content. While they filled a lot of that extra content with things like reprints or by mashing two series together into an anthology series, they still did frequently need new original material, and a lot of times it actually looked better due to better printing technology being used in British comics of the time compared to American comics of the time. A famous example is Marvel's original Transformers series from the '80s, where Britain's "filler" stories were both written and drawn so much better than the American stories that the main writer for them got hired to just write the main American series as well, and basically became the main Transformers writer to this day. (Of course, it's still a toy commercial, so there's a lot of awful shit not written by him too.) >Basically East dominates west because their stories actually END instead of dragging on endlessly I never thought this claim held any water considering many of the most successful anime and manga have been running for decades. There are many successful shorter ones, but there are many successful shorter western comics as well. Watchmen being successful does not mean that we should pretend Batman isn't insanely popular. Death Note being successful doesn't mean that we should pretend Dragon Ball or One Piece or Naruto isn't insanely popular. And yes, Dragon Ball ended eventually but I don't think anyone likes it because of the ending. In fact, everyone just argues it should have ended earlier. Then it came back. You're correct that they cater more to their fandoms. However, that's a very recent problem with comics. For a long time, the problem was that they catered too hard to their fandoms, and not to casuals. I suppose it depends on how you define fandoms. Since the '80s, comics have been mega autistic due to catering to hardcore fans, to the degree that a casual simply cannot understand what is happening in a random comic without reading reams of information from other comics first, and many of those other comics will all face the same problem. This naturally resulted in the fanbase shrinking. Casuals are a necessary evil. And it's not like many would say comics from the '70s are bad. They still feel very modern. Just they aren't so autistic that a casual can't understand them. However, the problem now is that they actively scorn the fanbase and they still don't cater to casuals. Now they cater to a tiny cult that hates the material that both fans and casuals love. But this really is a thing that only happened in the last few years. >and have zero problems creating and testing new IP as opposed to throwing tokens into familiar outfits and pretending what was a comic identity can now just be a hand-me-down label. This is a major factor. Part of the issue is that there have been few successful characters at all in the last several decades, and it probably has to do with casuals not reading comics in that same time frame, and with characters' histories and appeal being so autistic that they're hard to adapt. Deadpool is probably the latest character that casuals like, and he is relatively simple, he's an X-Men related assassin who is wacky. There is more to him in the comics but they don't adapt that. Who are the other successful comics characters since the late '80s? Booster Gold is a fan favorite, but not if you remove all of his connection to the Justice League International and Blue Beetle. Now, I'm autistic enough to think I could make a JLI adaptation that wouldn't be too confusing to casuals, but you still need to explain who Green Lantern is, and why the guy on the JLI is the backup Green Lantern. Casuals might be at that point now, but for a long time, nobody knew who the fuck Green Lantern was. Also, Booster Gold is related specifically to the third Blue Beetle. You can skip the first one, but the second one is heavily important to the third one's backstory. And then the comics don't use him anymore, they use his token minority replacement, who would actually qualify as one of the more successful characters since he was introduced 15 years ago and there was a good faith effort shown to respect the previous version (and his death made Booster Gold stories better), but now good luck explaining the fourth Blue Beetle properly in an adaptation without removing a lot of the stuff that makes him interesting, which is again connections to previous Blue Beetles and Booster Gold. Who else is sort of successful? Damian Wayne? The fifth Robin? You can skip the fourth Robin, the girl one that was only Robin for like a month, but if you remove the other Robins, Damian loses a lot of what made him interesting. In adaptations they always skip the bit where he didn't really become Robin until Batman died and the original Robin became Batman. That's essential to both of their characters, and without it, Damian isn't very interesting. Same for if you don't have Jason Todd, the second Robin, and show the parallels between he and Damian. There was also the rivalry between Damian and Tim Drake, the third Robin. Again, removing that makes Damian significantly less interesting (though I'd argue that factor is less important than the ones I mentioned before it). Adapting Damian Wayne is hard because since well before he was created, comics have been too autistic, and his appeal is too autistic to adapt easily. And yes, there's the modern issue of just giving some random minority the costume of an old beloved character. This has actually happened for decades, but it used to be done with more respect, and not to many major characters. I mentioned Blue Beetle, but he was always a D-lister. It happened to The Star Spangled Kid (getting replaced with Stargirl) but nobody ever gave a fuck about him. It happened to Wildcat, but then I've seen later issues where the original old man Wildcat was back, and I don't even know what happened to his latina replacement from the '80s. It happened to Dr. Light, where he got replaced with an asian woman who was a good guy, but the original Dr. Light was a D-list villain to begin with, and he stuck around doing his own villain stuff, eventually getting bumped up to B-list when they traded his light-themed villainy for rape-themed villainy. It also happened with The Question shortly after Blue Beetle, but The Question had a good death so people were okay with it, and his replacement still wasn't successful and basically faded away and now DC just doesn't know what to do with The Question. Last I saw, after Flashpoint The Question was some sort of immortal spirit or something. Probably not at all related to previous versions beyond name and costume. On the other hand, you have times when the label is handed down from one generation to the next, and it works, like with The Flash. But those aren't just tokens that disrespect the previous versions. When they tried to reboot the third Flash, Wally West, and make him a black kid, it went so badly that they said the original Wally West still existed, and this black kid was just his cousin also named Wally. Also, let's not pretend that Japanese stuff doesn't do the "hand-me-down label" thing constantly. There are like 50 different Ultramans. That said, don't let that make you think that I'm not saying comics are fucked. They are. >>309402 That's probably because it is made in Unity anon. >>309470 >Note that usually the part that slows everything down in the west is 'pencils,' which is the basic process of drawing the pages, but not inking them. Scripts are usually done by a different person, inks are usually done by a different person, and lettering is usually done by a different person. But that's mostly american comics and it was mostly capeshit that did that. Yuronigger comics never suffered from it, at least not int their golden age. Then again, apart from monthly disney comics, most yurobooks didn't exactly have strict schedules with a month as their deadline, so that probably helped a bit. >Manga, meanwhile, usually also has assistants who sometimes draw everything except for the main characters in a scene. Color is not usually expected, and page counts are typically lower. Though it's hard to judge exactly since many manga release weekly rather than monthly, which much shorter page counts. Also very true. Usually, the artist makes templates before hand and has the assistants just "copy paste" them on the pages on which he draws, when the backgrounds are bland are meant to be bland as fuck. Assistant honestly mostly do light inking since it's stressfull, before the finishing touches and they touch up on backgrounds, unless you have some Kentaro Miura-tier autism with details when it's 100% the creator because nobody can keep up with them. >>309493 >But that's mostly american comics and it was mostly capeshit that did that. Yeah, I thought I was clear that I was talking about American stuff. European stuff is a whole different industry, and I did briefly mention UK comics only to show how they were different. I'd go so far as to argue that the quality of the art in American comics is typically higher than manga, if we remove the last few years as an outlier. American comics are also typically printed on larger paper, and it seems like the drawings are a more significant aspect of them. However, this does change over time. Golden Age comics frequently did not have very detailed art, though attention was paid to things like character design. Colors in American comics suffered from poor printing until the '90s, when digital coloring became the norm, and even then it took some time for artists to get used to it. Many times if you look at black and white reprints of older comics, they look much better than the color versions. Sometimes they also do reprints with the colors re-done to various degrees. Sometimes they're just re-printed with modern techniques, which always looks a lot better. The same colors with the same intent, but without the primitive technology originally used to color them. You also have some cases where they straight up re-color from scratch, though, and while sometimes they're fine, sometimes it's weird. The colors can be much more varied and detailed this way, but the pages weren't originally intended for those colors, and sometimes the new colorists just fuck up. But examples like this are rare. >>309503 I get that but UK comics was a kind of different beast from the rest of the euro comics as well, it was closer to being its own thing. Italians, spaniards and franco-belgians were mostly uniform in their influence of eurocomics. >I'd go so far as to argue that the quality of the art in American comics is typically higher than manga, if we remove the last few years as an outlier. More like the opposite. Apart from 2 specific decades depending on the big houses, american comics typically had lower quality art once Japan stopped copying Disney and Uderzo / Herge. It was typically italians and spaniards that had the most fucking amazing art in comics, even if in the Italians case it was mostly for porn, like Manara. Unless you include Argentinian creators as American comic creators despite the most famous ones working on both Europe and USA at times then yes, American comics art was typically higher than manga. At least for me, part of the problem with american comics is that they don't get colours anymore and enough of their capeshit cartoons did get it great, like BTAS but they have since stopped trying to do that and just put people like Hifi to colour Bamham and Superman, when the man's palette and use of warm lighting and shadows is far more fit for sci-fi heroes and sci-fi artists, like Rocafort(who was great with Blond for colours) or having the team of Lean. Hories and Silva. Though I guess that's part of the overall lack of good management and competent chief editors nowadays since they can't even begin to understand good team composition in their creative teams. It doesn't help that a lot of the current senior artists, inkers, pencilers and colourists didn't have many assistants that work today or had assistants but didn't teach them anything, period, which results in talented people these days with no experience or even knowhow at times, fucking up constantly. Say what you will about manga starting goofy and the assistant thing but by learning from an artist and then practising until you find your own style does help a lot. Just look at people like Oda and Hiroyuki Takei, both of whom were assistants Watsuki Nobuhiro of Rurouni Kenshin fame, who was an assistant to Death Note's Takeshi Obata and even had a brief stint in american comics to develop his own style. It's a shame because it just means we won't get cool creative teams like the 70's Thor one or the 70s and 80s Spiderman. >>308881 I'm almost tempted to try it just to laugh at it. >>309407 He's got a point. Balloon tits are terrible to look at after a while. >>309470 >I never thought this claim held any water considering many of the most successful anime and manga have been running for decades I think the confusion sets in because you're looking at it from a property/popularity point of view. It's also my fault because I just short-handed my thoughts this morning. Lemme try again. Eastern properties, in this particular topic, have two massive advantages over western properties: linearity and the promise of an ending. With the former, it's insanely easy to get into almost any manga you can think of. Massively long titles (One Piece), or multi-book series (To Love Ru =>TLR Darkness) don't cart the bloat of spinoffs, crossovers, What Ifs/Elseworlds, or clusterfuck continuities so thick that the companies themselves have to cook up events to attempt to wrestle the hydra of their own creation into some semblance of coherency. Someone completely blank on both sides of comics would have an easier time to get into manga than comics. Don't believe me, ask just how many people jumped on Black Panther's books versus people who jumped into Demon Slayer, just to name two examples. Then there's the promise of an end. That doesn't take into account the rather shit endings that come entirely from editor demand because the book's been axed from the popularity polls, and therefore the publication entirely. But most stories on manga print have a beginning, middle, and, most important, a structured end. Despite Sailor Moon's titan-like popularity (despite contrast, she's a global household name, now), her story is told and gets revisited through, at best, retellings, instead of being dragged on endlessly into event after event until it before the aforementioned convoluted continuity hydra. Dragon Ball Super is its own fuckery, but even that has a linear setup and a promise that Toriyama will put an end page on the thing provided he doesn't die, first (at which point Kodansha & Toei will tun it into some unfeeling homonculus). This isn't to shit on the episodic nature of a lot of cape stories—they have their place and they obviously work for many. But again, I point to Black Panther as a textbook example to that method oftentimes serving as its own gatekeeping device. The other irony being no-good shitheads who refuse to dig through that continuity are now given free reign of all those western properties. Which...well, fuck. >>309847 You're definitely correct that the incredibly autistic continuity makes it hard for new readers to start. I mentioned that's one major problem American comics have had since the late '80s. They did have crossovers decades before that, but they kept them easy to understand. Dragon Ball Super is basically Toriyama slowly handing the reigns to Toyotaro, so he can continue it for decades to come. Yes, the publishers can put a stop to it, but Dragon Ball will probably remain profitable enough for Toyotaro to eventually hand it off to a new guy when he gets too old. Also, Marvel and DC capeshit comics do have endings, then they have sequels. Well, at least they used to. The problem with endings is more a problem of the autistically intertwined continuities. Stories used to be one issue long, or usually less. A story would end, then get a sequel. Now, they're many parts long, and when they do end, the cliffhanger for the next story is so strong that it frequently doesn't feel like an ending at all. But sometimes you do get an ending. But then, due to the complex crossovers, it only makes sense for other characters in other series to react to the ending of the first series. The original Superman died in 2006. But the universe lived on even though his story ended. Also he briefly came back as a zombie in 2009, but so did everyone else. It doesn't count. The point is, Superman's story ended. But people just don't care. They just keep reading past the end, with new characters, because of the crossovers. Superman also got a sort of ending in 1986 when they semi-rebooted and did a "What If" ending of if they didn't reboot. Also, the original Batman died in the '70s. But again, in all of these cases, people just read past the endings. Anyway, I'm autistically digressing. I think there are a lot of manga that people aren't reading for the ending. One Piece might end one day, but the fact that it, currently, is effectively just going on forever, has not stopped it from being enormously popular. By the same token, Superman might end one day, but when it was popular, the fact that it was still going didn't stop it from being popular. People like Batman despite it not having a set end date. People like Naruto even though it (or rather, Boruto, or whatever replaces it) will probably go on forever. >>309936 >One Piece might end one day, but the fact that it, currently, is effectively just going on forever, has not stopped it from being enormously popular. By the same token, Superman might end one day, but when it was popular, the fact that it was still going didn't stop it from being popular. People like Batman despite it not having a set end date. People like Naruto even though it (or rather, Boruto, or whatever replaces it) will probably go on forever. You DO realize that the American comic industry almost went bust in the 90's, and has only survived this long because of the films, right? Hell, current charts even say that the top 20 best selling comics are all manga. >>309936 >>309945 Also, it should be mentioned that people want to read capeshit and manga for different reasons. For capeshit, people pay attention to it less for the characters and story and more for the concept of it. Just look at how, while it started as a joke, you can take any character, throw on the "correct" costume, and they're immediately that "character". Throw a Batman costume on Bugs Bunny, Green Lantern costume on Daffy, give WW to Raven, and so on. And, that's excluding about how Marvel's comic and films have started centering around EVERYONE having their own Iron Man costume. The hero's title is just a name that can be slapped onto anyone and muddies the significance of that character. Batman is a rich billionaire, who trained really really hard, to clean up the streets of the corrupt Gotham City that claimed both of the lives of his parents. Green Lantern (Basing this off of the movie, go ahead and sue me for it as I don't know his comic origins) is a daredevil test pilot for the military who struggles with admitting his fears because he wants to be like his dad, and eventually learns how to push past said fears in order to protect his friends and family from threats bigger than one can imagine. WW is an Amazon who wanted to explore the world outside of her island and fight the people that may seek to conquer it. Iron Man is a rich billionaire, who found his wealth through weapons manufacturing, and decided that there's more good that he can provide for the world than just giving people a new shiny gun they can use. Boom, boom, boom, you have a solid character that you can make a great story around. However, what do people actually care about? That Batman looks cool, that no one gives a shit about Green Lantern, that WW is into bondage, and why doesn't Tony give everyone Iron Man costumes and solve all the world's problems right there? Meanwhile, let's look at the two manga you mentioned. One Piece has Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Nami, Chopper, Robin, Usopp, Franky, and Brook. Each of the characters serves as an irreplaceable component on their ship (Except for Zoro, Robin, and Brook arguably), and each character cannot be replaced by someone completely different. In fact, part of the premise FOR the series is that you have magic fruit that gives people supernatural abilities, and that no two fruits are alike. In fact, this is such an important plot point that there was even a story arc about one of the magical fruits suddenly being rediscovered that allowed people to have the same power as Ace (Luffy's then-recently deceased brother). And, that's into addition to the fact that the entire series centers around the characters all going through their own personal journeys to improve themselves and achieve their dreams. Similar thing with Naruto, a series about a bunch of ninjas in training. In fact, throw this at just about ANY manga compared to modern America capeshit, and you will see that manga treats characters as almost inseparable from their title. One series I can point to that openly displays this is Death Note, where, while each user adopts the title of "Kira", people know that Light is the only TRUE Kira at the end of the day. In fact, going through the manga I've read, there really isn't another series I can point to where the author attempts to replace characters and give them the same title. Possibly Keyman would qualify, but it's a similar mystery and label layout as that of Death Note, that there's only one "true" Keyman, and the rest are imitators of some form. Long story short, American comics are shit because it's all a title and nothing else. >>309959 Technically Green Lantern's is a uniform instead of just a costume. >>309471 >Also, let's not pretend that Japanese stuff doesn't do the "hand-me-down label" thing constantly. There are like 50 different Ultramans. That's not a mantle hand-me-down (in most cases. I don't track all of Ultraman). That's a franchise spinning an almost entirely new story every time. Same with (most of) Kamen Rider, same with Precure and Super Sentai. Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger was about the closest sentai got to a proper crossover. Which isn't to take away from the point you made as it was pretty strong. End of the day, passing the mantle is a tool, and it's one that cape comics like to abuse way too much. Notice no one batted an eye at The Phantom, who has legacy and mantle built in to the story. There will always be The Ghost who Walks. But Batman, despite some stories doing okay, was never meant to be a mantle figure. Batman is Bruce Wayne. It is the very symbol of his dedication, his trauma, his money, and his autism. Hell, most people don't call Terry McGuinese Batman—they call him Terry. And that's not to slam his character, but to emphasize the point. He is Terry McGuiness to people the same way Miles isn't Spider-Man, but Miles Morales (or Ben Reily, for the five of you that can say that name without randomly going into a conniption). All of it is tools of writing and the authors & editors abuse those tools way too damned often. >>309503 >I'd go so far as to argue that the quality of the art in American comics is typically higher than manga Let's not go crazy. Many western artists still struggle with actions in panels. This isn't to give Japan a pass, because many of them tank HARD at that practice, too (Perfect example: Read Magic Knight Rayearth and tell me you can follow any action taking place without a reread two or even three times). But as bad as they can flop, the conveyance of action is till better than a lot of the "dynamic pose" style too many comic artists commit to. >>310022 >>309959 I see, the problem are similar to both eastern and western industry, but handled somewhat differently with varying degrees of success. Guess at the end its just customers vs companies after all >>309959 >In fact, going through the manga I've read, there really isn't another series I can point to where the author attempts to replace characters and give them the same title. Possibly Keyman would qualify, but it's a similar mystery and label layout as that of Death Note, that there's only one "true" Keyman, and the rest are imitators of some form. One famous series where the new characters got the title of the previous one, is JoJo's Bizzare Adventure, in which only the main character has the nickname of JoJo. So much so, that in Part 3, even though Dio in Part 1 called Jonathan, JoJo, in Part 3 he referres to him as Jonathan, to Joseph as Joseph and to Jotaro as JoJo, because he was the protagonist of that part. After that in Part 4, 5 and 6 he was simply called Jotaro. This worked so well, that there is no real JoJo, like with Batman as Bruce Wayne, and at most it's the one you liked the most or the one you started with, though I think Jotaro is the most popular one overall, but I don't think there is anybody out there that calls him the only JoJo or the true JoJo >>309959 >you can take any character, throw on the "correct" costume, and they're immediately that "character" I disagree entirely. I don't have much interest in capeshit, but if you put a new person in an established role and I will give less than zero shits about them. Take the new Spiderman for example: Peter Parker's the only Spiderman for me - I'm not interested in this new kid at all. If you want a new person behind the mask then make a new fucking character. >>309936 >Also, Marvel and DC capeshit comics do have endings, then they have sequels. Well, at least they used to. The problem with endings is more a problem of the autistically intertwined continuities. Stories used to be one issue long, or usually less. A story would end, then get a sequel. Now, they're many parts long, and when they do end, the cliffhanger for the next story is so strong that it frequently doesn't feel like an ending at all. But sometimes you do get an ending. But then, due to the complex crossovers, it only makes sense for other characters in other series to react to the ending of the first series. The original Superman died in 2006. But the universe lived on even though his story ended. Also he briefly came back as a zombie in 2009, but so did everyone else. It doesn't count. The point is, Superman's story ended. But people just don't care. They just keep reading past the end, with new characters, because of the crossovers. Superman also got a sort of ending in 1986 when they semi-rebooted and did a "What If" ending of if they didn't reboot. Also, the original Batman died in the '70s. But again, in all of these cases, people just read past the endings. BULLSHIT When it was time for comics to "end", it was pretty clear for them to do so. Twice in fact, one for DC and one for Marvel. DC tried to do exactly that with CoIE and then have the new lines be their own new thing for new readers, just like how the animated series got classic stories and retold them in 25-minute episodes before they decided to dwelve into their own territory with Batman Beyond and the JLA series. With Marvel, Onslaught at least tried to provide this and bring a closure so the "Ultimate" line could continue. But like >>309847 said about DB becoming a humonculus of a monster due to Toei, Bandai, Kodanasha and whoever else holds the rights for toys and shit, it'll go on endlessly. And that's what happened in the end. Even when they tried to put and definite end the second time in DC with new52, by giving each and every book a super happy ending just to segway perfectly to 52, the collective autism of the readers, the artists and the editors couldn't fucking let them do it and look what the DCU is now. And let's not forget that due to those kinds of shit, the entire capeshit industry almost went bust TWICE but like >>309945 said, films saved them. >People like Batman despite it not having a set end date. People like Naruto even though it (or rather, Boruto, or whatever replaces it) will probably go on forever. Those are two very different things though. Naruto ENDED, period. Boruto, for all intends and purposes is the creation of other people. Only due to a scandal did Kishimoto return to write the current chapters of Boruto. Naruto's story ended because Kishimoto himself ended it. I'd argue the same shit kinda happened with Dragon Ball so when it comes to manga, it's always easy to call out the IP holders for being greedy cunts and discard those products since it's always obvious when the licenser steps in to make money vs when the mangaka writes a story but in DB's case, Super is Toriyama's child, unfortunately. Batman is different : even when Finger and Kane left, he continued to evolve and grow simply under DC's belt, he was way beyond the artistic merit of two people. Same thing with other super popular heroes like Spider-man. It should also be noted that a reason a lot of franco-belgian titles like Lucky Luke or Asterix, despite still pumping out comics due to Dargaud handing out some of their profitable titles to whoever perg they can find, people shit on them. It's one thing for one of the people who created the characters and comics to die(Goscinny) and the other to keep making comics until they stop and it's another to have those titles go on forever due to publishers and people know that and it shows on sales alone. It's why the only Lucky Luke titles as of now are one-off "gitty" retellings by highly autistic Lucky Luke readers who are still stuck in an era where they thought that grittifying old comical heroes was considered cool and edgy. >>309959 >Also, it should be mentioned that people want to read capeshit and manga for different reasons. For capeshit, people pay attention to it less for the characters and story and more for the concept of it. Just look at how, while it started as a joke, you can take any character, throw on the "correct" costume, and they're immediately that "character". Throw a Batman costume on Bugs Bunny, Green Lantern costume on Daffy, give WW to Raven, and so on. And, that's excluding about how Marvel's comic and films have started centering around EVERYONE having their own Iron Man costume. The hero's title is just a name that can be slapped onto anyone and muddies the significance of that character. That is also very true, unfortunately. >>309471 >Also, let's not pretend that Japanese stuff doesn't do the "hand-me-down label" thing constantly. There are like 50 different Ultramans. I get where you're going with this but even the very first fucking Ultraman told you, the viewer, that his name isn't "Ultraman" it's a title. He was a space cop and people from his species gain the title of "Ultra(man)" when they take on a job at the Space Garisson. Same shit with Kamen Rider until they swapped continuities. It also helps that Ultra and Rider had their original creators work on them until their deaths before they got passed to their companies and their relatives who chose to work on them. It's far closer to a Tolkien situation than capeshit itself. The one that does fit the capeshit mantle on the other hand is Toei's proper creations, the current Super Sentai and the Metal Heroes that, surprisingly, do fit the mold more than Ultra or Rider. >All these paragraphs of autism /co/ needs your dedication Anyways, not specifically a superhero game, I always wanted a Kim Possible video game. It would have different levels with get into the secret lab, avoid being detected stealth, standard fight mechanics, most importantly fun silly plot line with everyday sheninagans and cheesy villains. Then I realized there is no games like this at all. Kim Possible game is all but dream (it should have been made in 2000s) but any non-superpowered character can have this kind of game. >>310123 >kim's midriff >>310123 What about this game? >>310123 >/co/ needs your dedication I gave up on comics two decades ago, and television 15 years ago. All you're hearing from me are the grumblings of an aged hermit. But you are spot-on for a Kim Possible game—platforming, mystery or even a ARPG with a VN format. That would have made for fun times. Such a shame Disney is cancer, now. >>310123 >I always wanted a Kim Possible video game Three for the GBA, two for the DS, and one for the PS2. >>309459 >>309407 >liking fake tiddies >>310449 Man, kim was an actually likeable girls show protagonist. >>310450 Just assume they're mid-bounce >>310455 Zero standards >tfw have an idea for a fuckhuge hero game >no desire to code or anything else I'm a fucking useless ideaguy. >>309945 I don't see what your post has to do with the bit you're quoting, unless you're disagreeing with the claim that Batman will probably go on forever, which wasn't a claim directly made in the quote. The quote was refuting the argument that having a set ending (even if the audience doesn't know it) makes things significantly more popular. Claiming that Batman won't last forever is actually a better argument against that claim, since it will have an ending, and probably sooner rather than later. Also, the American comic industry has been fucked since the '90s for reasons well beyond artistic ones. That's not to say they haven't had artistic problems, like the autism making it hard for readers, especially new readers, to follow, or SJWs recently deliberately trying to kill the industry. However, the crash in the '90s had more to do with a speculator bubble resulting in artificially inflated success, which lead to a bunch of investments, not just in collecting comics, but in opening stores, and Marvel creating their own distributing division, which meant that when the bubble burst, it caused a lot of damage, including putting Marvel into bankruptcy and Diamond Comics Distributors being left as an effective monopoly over the entire industry, which only changed in the last year due to the Wuhan Virus, when it was already too late to save the industry anyway. Additionally, that bubble helped to encourage the move to selling in specialty shops more than in regular stores where normalfags would actually see the products, and Diamond then was incentivized to keep things that way since specialty shops couldn't return unsold copies, decreasing Diamond's risk significantly. This resulted in effectively no new readers ever appearing, since nobody is going to go into a comic shop to buy comics unless they already like comics. By contrast, Archie (and other comics they published, like Sonic the Hedgehog) continued to sell in places like grocery stores (because Archie wasn't distributed by Diamond) and their sales are so much higher than every other company that they basically aren't even comparable. Archie still makes a lot of money, somehow. However, Archie is still fucked long term obviously since print in general is dying, and magazines are especially dying. Comics are fundamentally magazines, and it's ridiculous that these companies expect them to do better than the rest of the magazine industry, when other magazines are sold in stores that people actually go to. They're also too stupid to do proper online distribution, as they sell individual issues instead of subscriptions, and the issues are priced the same as physical. When they do subscription services, for some reason, they don't include every comic they have the rights to, even though the services are set up by the companies that own all the rights, and should be able to put almost every issue ever published, which is obviously what people want, since nobody wants to read a 1000 issue long series, but have random stretches of issues missing. Also, the prices are too high because they're the same as physical, and physical prices are too high because the move to specialty shops and abandonment of the casual audience has left the industry relying on a steadily shrinking number of whales, so the whales need to keep paying more and more to keep the industry afloat, but that only means that it becomes even less appealing to regular people, because regular people know it's retarded to pay$5 for like 23 pages that take you five minutes to read because the style is so light on both dialogue and drawn detail.
>>310508 >$5 for a comic Fuck I could buy a novel for that amount of money. Are they having a laugh no cunt is going to pay$5 for picture book about a rich furry dressed as a bat.
>>309324 I just tried the game, they actually have pussy sliders, yet they have no belly sliders. I can't make my characte slightly chubby or something, and since I don't have any of those very expensive costumes except for the basic one, I don't know if I can put abs on them either.
>>310551 >belly slider
>>310551 Anon, are you sure it's not bundled in with any malicious software? Not that I'm saying League of Maidens is confirmed or even rumored to have that but I'd take precautions with a game that looks like that.
>>310523 >Your claim that Ultraman is just a reboot with the same title only shows that Japanese stuff relies on the title rather than the characters even harder. Forgot about that one : Ultraman and his brethren, Kamen Rider and Super Sentai have one key difference between comic characters : they are portrayed by actors. They are conceived as tv characters for actors to play rather than comic characters that can be played by anyone so long as they look the part. Takeshi Hongo is and always will be Kamen Rider #1. And it's due to that that even when doing crossovers you sometimes don't see a lot of characters out of costume an it's why Tsuburaya has been trying for years now to shift the status quo of Ultramen away from the "the human host is the character and the Ultraman is the secondary guy who rarely talks" to something closer to Ultra7 and Ultraman Mebius, sometimes even forgoing human hosts entirely like Ultraman Zero just so that the characters can be truly "immortal" like Godzilla since now they are a costume in the real sense I mean, they are a costume in tv and you just dub their voices and they'd still be the same something you can't exactly do with comic characters. Look at Michael Keaton as Batman, people were going apeshit and hated that casting choice when it was announced but now everybody loves. Tl;dr : You should have used something like Devilman or better yet, Gundam to say that the other anon cements that nips relly more on titles.
>>310451 I'm no expert on the show, but when I was like 12 and it first came out, I turned it on, saw it was typical "super competent girl with bumbling buffoon male sidekick" and didn't feel the need to watch more. I never found that shit very likable, even as a kid. The Powerpuff Girls were likable protagonists from a similar show around the same era, and didn't rely on obvious "girl power" cliches nearly as much. My Life as a Teenage Robot, too (though admittedly I don't remember as much of that one, so maybe it sucked too). >>310620 This argument still relies on the premise that people only care about Batman, Spider-Man, etc., and not about Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, etc. SJWs have been trying hard to push that the last few years, but it doesn't check out. Also, sometimes the actors do end up fairly closely connected with specific iterations of the character. It would have made the tv version of the Crisis on Infinite Earths awesome, if it wasn't done in current year and made to be SJW propaganda. We got 1990 Flash and 1966 Robin and 2001 Superman Smallville and it would have been awesome if they didn't fuck it up so bad. Also, a lot of comics to this day still try to draw Superman to look like Christopher Reeve, even though it usually ends up looking uncanny as fuck.
>>310620 > You should have used something like Devilman There's only one Devilman, Akira Fuduo. The only time it is not Akira (Outside of spin-off lore series) was in Devilman Lady. >>310628 >A space cop dying and leaving his powers to some human guy (and isn't he a test pilot or something like that too?) is a fairly specific origin story. Of course they're all descended from other things, but the similarities between Ultraman and Green Lantern are unmistakable. Decided to look it up, Ultraman started as a spin-off of Ultra Q, Japan's answer to The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits.
>>310523 >Your claim that Ultraman is just a reboot with the same title only shows that Japanese stuff relies on the title rather than the characters even harder. They don't, though. With continuity being the topic, the only stretch you can go for beyond the Tokusatsu types and Pretty Cure, is Gundam. The key point in all of it is the continuity. To my immediate knowledge, every Ultraman is its own story with entirely different characters, villains, and plot. Kamen Rider, for the most part (I don't pretend to have watched Decade or many other seasons) are by and large self-contained stories. The very same for Precure—two direct sequel seasons aside, each season is new cast, new villains, new story. Gundam is an odd half and half because you have the Universal Century continuity which is all about 87 and the many wars that came after it, and a lot of spinoffs that have absolutely nothing to do with one another save for having the titular robot somewhere on set. Here's the important part: Contrast those handful of series with the 40 or so anime titles released seasonally, or the hundreds of books published on a weekly/monthly basis. It's not that Japan relies on the method of passing the mantle—it's that they know not to ABUSE the mantle as a function in most cases (DBZ was an outlier—both editor AND fans preferred Goku to Gohan, so he was sidelined as a replacement). You're not expected to know every season of Precure. Hell, most Precure fans opening up will recommend season 7 (Heartcatch) as the litmus test for curious newcomers are willing to stick around to learn and enjoy or not (Protip: most do because Heartcatch was fucking amazing from start to finish). There's no feeling in that season that Tsubomi Hanasaki, the main character, has to live up to 7 years worth of combat hailing from her predecessors. In fact, the only prior generation of concern that season was birthed IN that season and made a B Plot focus: The fallen Tsukikage Yuri/Cure Moonlight. But even with that, Tsubomi (Cure Blossom) and Erika (Cure Marine) are allowed to blossom and grow in their own way, gaining friends, fighting their villains, learning some pointed lessons and actually paving the way for Cure Moonlight's redemption. And then the third act comes in like a freight train barreling down on you and it just gets even BETTER. Contrast with capebooks past and present use of new characters in legacy role, and I can't convey the same feeling of clean, professional use for story's sake. All of the Precures have their identities and cemented their roles. Terry's still Terry. Wally is arguable for me only because I started with Wally and not Barry (but still prefer Bart the most). Miles is still Miles. Really, my takeaway with this, all discussion aside, is y'all really need to check out Precure it's fuckin' great.
So will there ever be a followup to Undefeated?
>>310661 >Toriyama's hatred of Fox's shit movie fueled Battle of the Gods and Brolly and Super Oh my god that's fucking hilarious
>>310666 Yup, the manga is still ongoing with a second movie on the way. If anything FOX brought back DragonBall by making such a terrible movie.
>>310661 >And I hated it at first because I got some scary dude who gave me nightmares instead of Adam West. Always preferred The Batman over TAS, although I wonder how much of that was influenced by watch reruns of HB DC cartoons on Boomerang. >>310666 >>310667 It wasn't JUST the Pedowood film, Toriyama was ticked off with how everyone (Including Toei) handled the franchise: https://archive.vn/CYkvc >I had put Dragon Ball behind me, but seeing how much that live-action film ticked me off, and how I revised that script for the anime movie and complained about the quality of the TV anime, I suppose somewhere along the line it’s become a series I like too much to ever leave alone.
>>310669 Yeah but GT was basically finished for years by that point. The Pedowood movie had to be the final straw.
>>310667 >brought back DragonBall Eh, not really, you had the games coming out constantly, so it wasn't ever gone but it was doomed to be the eternal retelling of the stories until Spike Chunsoft went ham with the Tenkaichi series. >>310671 Pretty much. It's no secret that Tori didn't like what Toei was doing but by that point, he was effectively 15 years away from Dragon Ball having its balls fondled by stupid executives and he had calmed down enough to do new cover drawing s for the then releases of the new volume packaging of DB, the Kanzenban editions. Seeing the film just revived that feeling and got him autistically mad. And rightfully so.
>>310449 The last two boxarts make it look like she has a thin mouth and a mustache. >>310627 >I'm no expert on the show, but when I was like 12 and it first came out, I turned it on, saw it was typical "super competent girl with bumbling buffoon male sidekick" and didn't feel the need to watch more. I never found that shit very likable, even as a kid. The Powerpuff Girls were likable protagonists from a similar show around the same era, and didn't rely on obvious "girl power" cliches nearly as much. My Life as a Teenage Robot, too (though admittedly I don't remember as much of that one, so maybe it sucked too). Yeah, it's one of those shows where the only way to make the girl character competent was to reduce every male character to an idiot. It has been forever since I saw the show (and even then I did not care much about it), but the only decent male character I remember was her father who is a rocket scientist or something like that. But he's a parent in a teenage cartoon, so most of the time he didn't really matter.
>>310627 >>310678 It gets better when you take up the theory that Ron is acting stupid and helpless on purpose. Because he's a Kike. And, not just any Kike, THE FUCKING ALMIGHTY BLUE KIKE.
>>309503 >I'd go so far as to argue that the quality of the art in American comics is typically higher than manga, if we remove the last few years as an outlier. That stopped being true sometime in the 80s. Old, skilled artists in the U.S. started dying off or retiring, and most potential talent has heard enough horror stories from people abused by big two to instead go into other media. >>310508 >comics are fundametally magazines Most Europeans ditched that mentality, and comics are treated more like books. Creators work on them, and new tome releases when it's ready. Usually in intervals of one to two years on average if it is a series instead of a self-contained story. Considering that most European comic book markets keep growing and even slowly encroaching into American market, this quality of quantity strategy is working pretty well.
>>310618 >Anon, are you sure it's not bundled in with any malicious software? No need for malicious software, the store is the malicious software. You should see the prices, it's ridiculously expensive.
>>310666 >>310661 One of the guests Nick Rekieta had on his show worked behind the scenes on that shit. He claims a large part of why it was so shit was executives saw another movie that was influenced by Journey to the West coming around the same time, didn't realize they were pulling from the same uber popular 1500s novel, and ordered rewrites to avoid looking too similar. Since this was during the guild strike, there weren't any writers available and the executives decided to do it themselves.
>>310056 >Only due to a scandal did Kishimoto return to write the current chapters of Boruto. What happened? Nobuhiro Watsuki was caught as a child predator. What did the Boruto writer did?
>>310056 >The one that does fit the capeshit mantle on the other hand is Toei's proper creations, the current Super Sentai and the Metal Heroes that, surprisingly, do fit the mold more than Ultra or Rider. Super Sentai fits in more than what you cited, due to the fact that it was created by the same author of Kamen Rider, then it got "hijacked" by the company when it became successful. The original stories ended, by the author. But Toei keep making more shows in the franchise, forcefully linking them all together, and bringing back the first 2 series that were created by the author and forcefully making them go on forever in the form of cameos and crossovers., ruining their original continuity, and producing lots of contradicting plots and lots of plot holes.
>>310476 Programmers and coders can't have creative and fun ideas anymore, so they are practically useless for entertainment too.
>>310778 Fucking unbelievable. >>310779 >What happened? Bullshit with editors and the artist, along with the feud spilling on social media during a drunken night. You know, the usual no-nos in bussiness. >>310781 That's not what happened though. Ishinomori did make the original Sentai and its manga and when Marvel proposed to colaborate with them but fell apart, that's how Battle Fever J was born. After that, Ishinomori wanted to be exclusively on Kamen Rider and to finish Cyborg 009 so he left Super Sentai to TOEI, something that wasn't uncommon back then. Something similar happened with the original Getter Robo, initially it was Go Nagai who thought of the basic idea, premise and characters but left it to Ken Ishikawa the moment he proposed it should be three fighter jets that combine instead of three bikes.
>>310509 >This isn't true. It's what SJWs want to believe, but they're wrong, and that's why their characters keep failing. How can you honestly judge what is and isn't "failing" outside of a slight uptic in readership that doesn't cause a dent in the overall profits? And, anger on social media that just becomes white noise because no one is happy for on reason or another (Regardless of how justified they are in being outright pissed). Also, I do acknowledge that America comics were not ALWAYS like this. However, it's been a trend that's been common over the past three decades. In fact, that was common trope in films and TV as well. Just look at some of the media that came out that either slandered or retired the "old guard" and replaced them with the righteous rookies and interns. And, like you said, the entire reason why they do it is to make it all about the title rather than the character(s) so that the hack writers can push their propaganda. However, I've yet to see any evidence stating that they're successful or failing outside of arbitrary numbers in a failing medium. And, declaring that "So-and-so is gone" doesn't indicate jackshit. Media THRIVES upon drama. The more drama they create, they more of an advantage they have when it comes to selling you something, regardless of whether that's time or money spent. Just look at how Jewtube channels like Overlord DVD or those watching the EvA lawsuit have been rocking it in ratings thanks to all the rumors and leaks coming out. And, speaking of which, you also have to look at the details of what's going on, too. For example, last I heard, the only "quality" comic I've heard coming out of Marvel since the 2014 "end" of the MU was Gwenpool by Hastings. And, Hastings "left" in 2018 and "returned" in 2019. Well, what was he doing during that year of absence? He was writing other comics for FUCKING MARVEL. He didn't leave, nor was fired from the company, they just cycled him around to other parts of the company. And, when you sit back and think about it, it's actually a rather brilliant ploy. Get people to write good stories, move them around (While keeping them on site) in order to show that there's interest in even just "average" material, and then put them back into position and make yourself look like a "hero" for how you're "listening to the fans" when all you were really doing was just showing that there was a group of suckers out there who's paying attention and will continue to order your shlock just so that you can pay the bills. To put it another way, old American comics and manga focus on "Character X is Hero Y". Meanwhile, newer material focuses on "Hero Y is being played by Character X".
>>311275 >The fact that Japanese series just call a completely new series "Digimon" even though it's entirely unrelated just shows that they sell purely on brand, even moreso than capeshit. It's based around digital monsters, that come from another dimension, and have a master that they befriend and serve in order to gain power so that they can fight bigger and bigger threats. That's been the series' shtick since '98 with the V-Tamers manga, with the sole exception of Frontier. >They slap a guy called Agumon on the series, who has a completely different history, and is just plain not the same guy, but he looks the same and has the same name, and we're just supposed to buy it because of the name and design. And, what about the fact that V-Tamers and Adventure (The earliest Digimon media, with the former starting just four months prior to the latter) have the same Taichi, who go on two widely different adventures? Also, a Digimon's name is it's species. Also, Digimon is based around those v-pet toys that were popular from over a decade ago. >Meanwhile, Japanese shit just goes "this is Kamen Rider now. You like it because it's called Kamen Rider, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the previous series that you liked. Just forget those old characters you liked. They don't matter anymore. They don't exist anymore." No, they establish that it's a different Kamen Rider RIGHT IN THE FUCKING TITILE. There's V3, Black, W, and so on. And, as other Anons have pointed out, those characters still exist. >Even when capeshit tries to actually erase characters, it almost never sticks, because people care about the characters too much. Because that's the name of the fucking series. If you're going to have a Batman series, people expect Batman to be Bruce Wayne. If they DON'T see Bruce Wayne as Batman, they think they picked up the wrong comic. What Japan is doing is something the DCAU SOLVED over twenty years ago when they made Batman Beyond. BB is perhaps one of the most notable series where Batman IS NOT Bruce Wayne, Batman is Terry McGinnis in that series. And, Timm and the rest of the team new that it was fucking stupid to just call the series Batman and be done with it. People would go in expecting to see Bruce Wayne kicking ass, and instead they'd be treated with a wise-cracking teen kicking ass while being mentored by Bruce. People would have been pissed and the show would never have gotten past the first season. Hence the addition of BEYOND to the fucking title. However, this almost never exists elsewhere in capeshit outside of limited alternate universes like the 2099 comics and the Mangaverse. In fact it's even MORE confusing when it comes to Western comics because you have the "Spectacular" Spider-Man, the "Amazing" Spider-Man, the "Sensational" Spider-Man, and so on. With all those titles, you'd think it would all be about different "Spider-Men" characters but, NOPE, same guy, just different series. Marvel sort-of solved this issue with the Ultimate series, but I hear that started suffering from the same issues. And, that's including all the mishaps where they keep using the same characters (I don't mean "same characters" but different universe, I mean 100% the same characters in and from the same universe) having all of this comics resetting to zero every other year, which creates even more confusion. (And, I don't buy the "You don't have to read everything that came prior because they designed the comic around being an 'entrance' for newcomers" excuse because the series immediately starts using characters that haven't been seen in decades or referencing past events that predates the current happenings in the comics that are suppose to be for newcomers). >>311278 >If they were smart, they'd move entirely to a graphic novel model, since practically all stories are "written for the trade (paperback)" anyway, which means they're all like six issues long. Instead of putting out over 52 issues per month twelve months a year, they'd be better off putting out like two graphic novels per week. It's not just the magazine model. it's also the money involved. If they sell 52 comics for $5 a piece, that's$260 gained for all 52 comics selling one copy. Compare that to 9 graphic novels (Got that number from supposing that they compile all 52 comics into 6 different graphic novel lines, leaving us with "9 series) selling for a maximum of $20, for a total of$180 earned for selling 1 copy of all 9 series. On paper, the former "magazine" model method brings in more money, and that's all that comic publishers really care about. And, if they were to start following the "graphic novel" method, they'd probably fuck it up and demand that the novels sell for $30 a pop so that they can maintain their near$300 figure. And, keep in mind, manga volumes are selling for $10. >>311379 >It's based around digital monsters, that come from another dimension, and have a master that they befriend and serve in order to gain power so that they can fight bigger and bigger threats. And Spider-Man is about a young guy who gets bitten by a special spider and then gets spider-powers which he uses to fight crime. That doesn't mean Miles Morales is the same as Peter Parker. But at least at the start they followed the pretense of Miles trying to live up to (Ultimate) Peter's legacy. >And, what about the fact that V-Tamers and Adventure (The earliest Digimon media, with the former starting just four months prior to the latter) have the same Taichi, who go on two widely different adventures? My point exactly. It's even more disconnected, but they expect kids to go "oh, he has the same name and the same hair, so I should like him the same even though they are in no way the same character besides name and costume. And I love V-Tamer (and obviously Adventure), but what I'm arguing against is that capeshit is somehow more prone to treating characters as just titles and costumes than Japanese equivalents. >Also, a Digimon's name is it's species. You just mentioned V-Tamer, so you should know better, considering the main Digimon there is a V-Dramon named Zero. Some Digimon have real names. But it doesn't change my point that obviously Savers had an agumon for marketing reasons, as if the audience would like this agumon as much as the one from Adventure just because they have the same name and appearance. >Also, Digimon is based around those v-pet toys that were popular from over a decade ago. That doesn't change the point from a storytelling perspective. That's like saying you can just make Optimus Prime a title and have other characters take it over. Hasbro tried that shit to a degree with Rodimus Prime, and everyone hated it so much they had to bring Optimus back in the final few episodes. But then Japanese Transformers proved my point even further by having Ginrai, another guy in a body that looks exactly like Convoy and is the leader, and we're supposed to like him just as much just because he has the same appearance, the same costume. And they do effectively just make Optimus's body a costume since he's a Headmaster. At least when American Transformers did Beast Wars, they had the decency to heavily reference the previous Optimus and Megatron and show how their namesakes are effected by their legacies. Those namesakes are treated as wholly their own characters, and not just guys wearing an old costume. >No, they establish that it's a different Kamen Rider RIGHT IN THE FUCKING TITILE. There's V3, Black, W, and so on. And, as other Anons have pointed out, those characters still exist. No shit. Anyone reading The Flash or whatever will know it's a different Flash, too. But the fact that they're even more disconnected is not a point in favor of arguing that they treat the characters under the mask as less disposable. It's exactly the opposite. They change all the time and the characters don't even have connections to each other, and we're just supposed to go "it says Ultraman/Kamen Rider/Gundam/Digimon, so even though it has nothing to do with the characters and story and world that I liked from the previous version, it has the name and appearance, so I guess I like it." >If you're going to have a Batman series, people expect Batman to be Bruce Wayne. This is my point. It's like we're arguing the same point. The points you're actually arguing against are the points the guy I was arguing against made. The characters under the costume are important. You can't just swap out Bruce Wayne and expect people to still like it just the same just because it's called Batman. >However, this almost never exists elsewhere in capeshit outside of limited alternate universes like the 2099 comics and the Mangaverse. So your only problem is when they don't change the name of a series when a new guy takes the role? This seems like a very minor thing, and it only matters to absolute casuals who don't actually consume the media. To them it might not matter who is dressed as The Flash. To anyone reading, they'll know immediately if it's Jay or Barry or Wally or Bart or the other Wally. You'll notice that actual readers tend more to talk about characters by their real names instead of their aliases, unless they're talking to casuals who wouldn't know who Wally West is, and knowledge of multiple Flashes isn't important to the conversation. >In fact it's even MORE confusing when it comes to Western comics because you have the "Spectacular" Spider-Man, the "Amazing" Spider-Man, the "Sensational" Spider-Man, and so on. Agreed. This is a major problem and never should have happened. It gets even more confusing since Ultimate Spider-Man actually is a different guy, but he's also called Peter Parker and looks very similar but is from a different universe and has a different story. At least people could mostly understand what the "Ultimate" line was, but of course it didn't work out long term, and here we are. I still recommend it to newbies as a decent way to start reading capeshit comics though, since it was easy to follow and generally good at first. By the time they get to when it becomes lame, they'll be autistic enough to understand the main universes. >And, I don't buy the "You don't have to read everything that came prior because they designed the comic around being an 'entrance' for newcomers" excuse because the series immediately starts using characters that haven't been seen in decades or referencing past events that predates the current happenings in the comics that are suppose to be for newcomers You're also correct with this point. There are times when there are good "jumping on points," but it can be hard to tell what they are. The New 52 was heavily marketed as such a point, but there were plenty of major series that didn't work like that, including the super successful (and thus enticing to newcomers) Batman and Green Lantern series (which each had like six series each). Action Comics and Justice League started with origin stories (and Action Comics' origin story happened before Justice League's even though each of its issues came out a week after Justice League's issues), but then after six issues or whatever transitioned to "present day" and technically all the old stories happened between the origins and then. Granted they didn't heavily reference them, but still. Also Superman had multiple series and the rest all happened in the present. Characters starring in multiple series is fucked. The entire premise of releasing monthly issues but each issue is only part 1 of 6 or 1 of 52 or 1 of 150, and also the characters all cross over even though each issue ends on a cliffhanger so there is no logical way to work out the order of events until a year later when all the story arcs are done and you can look at them in retrospect. It's all fucked and they need to cut back massively and also just ditch the magazine model entirely. Also, part of the issue is that you really don't need to read "everything" that came before, but you do need a certain level of knowledge of past stuff. And good luck finding where precisely that knowledge should come from. Once you reach a certain point you can read most of whatever and understand it, but good luck reaching that point. > If they sell 52 comics for$5 a piece, that's $260 gained for all 52 comics selling one copy. Compare that to 9 graphic novels (Got that number from supposing that they compile all 52 comics into 6 different graphic novel lines, leaving us with "9 series I looked at it with the assumption that a graphic novel is about the length of six issues, which is basically the standard right now. Instead of each series doing 12 issues per year (though really they tend to do 13 with annuals, and the annuals are a little longer), they could say each of those 52 series does two graphic novels per year, or 104 graphic novels per year, or two per week. But wait we end up with the same numbers. But regardless, yeah you're right, they're stupid and only think short term. They'd make more money from people being able to follow the damn material and actually buy it in regular stores, and frankly, I think there would be a lot more people who would actually buy everything, since GNs at least feel more like a complete product. But yeah, they would fuck it up in many ways, not the least of which is price. Also, like manga, they should be selling a lot more cheaper material in black and white and cheaper paper. Color does impress normalfags, but so does value. I have tons of Showcase Presents and Marvel Essential volumes, because 25 issues for like$10 or whatever they used to sell for was actually a great deal, even if they were in black and white. Especially since they were in black and white because the color wasn't even good on a lot of those old comics. But people didn't buy them, probably partially because of the lack of color. Maybe also because they were still confusing, and even though they were mostly numbered logically, nobody is gonna buy a later numbered volume unless they can find the earlier one, and finding them could be hard. But they still need to do a proper online subscription service that actually contains every issue they have the rights to. I can live if they're missing that one issue of Marvel Team-Up where Spider-Man teams up with The Not Ready For Prime Time Players (an issue they can't reprint probably because Bill Murray is a dick), but there's no reason to just be missing random stretches of other issues. Any ones that are missing should have a damn good reason.
>>311500 >If you didn't know that existed, Flash vol 1 would have been a good ending. I forgot to comment on that but this is a sad truth. Supergirl Vol.1, Flash Vol.1, Wonder Woman Vol.1 and I think even Superman Vol.1 would have been the perfect "good endings" to these characters if not for CoIE. Which makes it even worse when you realise that all of these people, sans Superman, fucking died in CoIE yes, it's Earth 1 Wondy that died and Earth 2 Wondy became a Goddess of Olympus in her place
>>311453 >It's called marketing. Therefore, it is cancer.
>>311453 >the children in the audience were livid and horrified over seeing Optimus pass away. I was in the theater. I cried. But I hold to this day he went out like a fuckin' HERO. But unlike a lot of other kids, I accepted it and moved on. Bringing him back in that 3-part TV event was the silliest shit to me, story-wise. Rodimus for all his early fuckups was doing a good job. Optimus had already fulfilled his role. I look back on that time, now, with clear image of what Micheal Bay and Hollywood has done to the Transformers name, and I can't help but think maybe all those Autobots getting massacred was actually a blessing since they didn't live to see what became of their legacy.
>>311945 >Hey, remember when I made that emphasis about most Japanese writers knowing how to END a series? This is the exact reason I made that statement. This is a sense of attachment that is not good to cultivate—the idea to hold on desperately to a concept or story that has already reached a logical conclusion is absurd by and large, with most efforts to continue beyond that point clumsy at best, and typically disastrous. I geniuently hate stories that try to keep up the status quo without actually leading to any conclusion. You can say that WoW has been destroyed by SJWs, but even if it wasn't, the simple setup of the story would not allow it to develop. The setup for a story which is supposed to go on forever NEVER WORKS and will break apart eventually. Whether it is capeshit or anything else.
>>310648 Gundam is a very different case because it doesn't so much tell a story of a character but because it tells a story of a solar system. It's a story about HISTORY at the end of the day. There isn't really a problem with continuing it for a long time because our own history keeps trecking along. If someone made a sequel to LOGH, he could do it in a good manner by just continuing historical plots from it. Gundam is not as character-centric as superhero comics.
>>310648 And when PreCure does gay characters, that's not their entire personality.
>>312044 Japs are good at writing gay characters because they are not burdened by political bullshit. They just write them like any other romance. And that's fine. You don't need to screech about how progressive you are. Sexualise Romanticise And humanise Don't write your gay fucking characters as anything else than just people. Don't write them as political fucking pieces. If both conservative fucks and SJWs shut the fuck up about media this wouldn't be a problem. You could have completely straight romances for straight people, hot anime boys romancing each other for gay/bi guys and straight women, and hot anime girls romancing each other for gay/bi girls and straight guys. I do not believe anyone would make a big fuss about it. If you don't like it, you either tolerate it if you like the work enough, or don't fucking engage in the work. It's so fucking simple, just stop giving a shit about this meaningless bullshit. Neither gays, nor straights, nor bi fucks annoy me. The only people who actually annoy me are the ones who force their shit onto others and try to control what people can or cannot write, or what they can or cannot do. This shit isn't difficult, we had this figured out for years. Personal responsibility to an extent where we can push for it and "Don't fuck me, I don't fuck with you", but it's getting worse and worse with every single year as people put their stupid fucking "identities" over their freedoms, other people and even themselves.
>>312044 what the fuck, they made a show out of those loli doujins?
>>312050 >As much of a cat as a human is an app It's head looks identical to a cat head.
>>312051 >a human is an app woah dude, what if we are inside a phone?
>>312049 Sorry, you got to live in Sad World where you are either a religious puritan, or a religious puritan (subversive marxist). Apparently you cannot pick a 3rd option.
freedom of expression is effected first and foremost due to the retarded mindset of "All art is political." An idea mostly pushed by subversives to try and legitimize propaganda as "Art"
>>312078 Not all art is political, but some propaganda can be art, if they are extremely good at convincing the people to do/think what the propaganda author wanted. Take this poster for instance, it was used in the first world war, to convince the public to join a war, they really didn't have a stake in, and it has been ingrained in the minds of people so much, that every time someone does a parody of a recruitment poster, they use this as a template, while some do it unironically.
>>312060 >sometimes very specifically "these" characters (and not alternate versions of them seen in adaptations or whatever) actually do mean something. Superman, whether you like it or not, does actually represent things, and a story that uses a Superman analogue (of which there are very many) just will not hit precisely the same way
>>312081 Pretty iconic, even if they did somewhat copy it from the Bongs
>>312085 Not an american, but wasn't aware of that. Apparently you are right and there were a lot of imitations of that British poster.
>>312078 If all art is political, then there's an overwhelming amount of left-leaning shit; I fail to see nuanced art (especially now) that suggests otherwise. The modern political cartoonist is what's making your media.
>>312110 >I never read Wanted or watched the movie. The film and the comics are two completely different stories. The comic is about how all the DC and Marvel villains decided to team up, kill all of the heroes in the world, and then are spending the rest of their lives just chilling. The film (and follow-up video game) is about a secret league of super assassins that dictate the power players of the world.
>>312152 >demand american reprints? Derp, western-language reprints
>>312071 It's the natural instinct of humanity. It has always been like this unfortunately.
>>312128 >Vidya hasn't survived any better than anything else. Nah I wasn't making a philosophical point, there. I mean I stupidly put all my childhood shit and most of my teenage gains in the family storage unit which was then auctioned off because no one paid the bill. I'll get to the rest of these after dinner.
Holy fuck, I expected Maidens to be scummy, but it's Tripwire levels of bullshit: >Everything in the shop cannot be obtained through gaming, you pay in Diamonds, the pay-only currency in the game >each costume is $10 (D2000) >most other unlockables range from$2.50 to $5 (D500 to D1000) >nude/gigantic titties/giant size/misc codes are$20 each (D5000) >some QoL shit is paywalled, the most important one (stash box + share between characters) is $10 (D2000) >You actually pay more than the actual value of things if you buy Standard/Ultimate Edition (around$5~$7 more for stuff that can be free with grind) >there are even limited costumes, the Patriotika one isn't available anymore >worst part is they really, really want the money, you have warnings that your "diamond balance is low", the shop button in the home menu is huge, you have the featured costume shilled right at the start of the game, and even the full HUD during gameplay has a shop button (it can be disabled) >to get everything without overpaying, you obviously have to pay the highest diamond stash available in the shop, D200000 for$369.99, so a fucking console, or a WoW subscription for around 28 months at $13 a month There's even a "Maiden+" subscription (I didn't dare to check the price) and Premium subscription for a 20% discount at the shop >This is a pre-alpha game, doesn't even have multiplayer yet, supposedly in development with only 3 guys on it, and it could potentialy go down any second >it was even worse before, because there even was a stamina limit like a gacha game (unlimited with premium), but they got rid of that >>312517 >Try following the actual conversation, or at least reading the part that you yourself bothered to greentext. And you should stop ommiting parts of my text as well. Because you very conviniently omit what I showed and what I said later, about nips doing stuff with the american comic characters. For fuckingyears Marvel has been doing it and now even DC hoped on the fray and people went apeshit. > Action, Detective, Adventure, and Brave and the Bold were anthology series that didn't even just focus on Batman or Superman No? Action always featured 1 Superman story, Detective always featured 1 Batman story, Brave and the Bold even had Batman or Superman stories before starting shaking things up, same with Adventure that would feature a Superman story along with a Superboy or Superbaby I don't remember the exact title but it was Superman as a baby before Supergirl came to the picture and Swapped out the Superman story of the month but by then Superman would also get Superman Family as a monthly book and at times even that would feature a story of Superman that was previously published in other monthly series, reprinted with either better lines or slightly better colours, years down the line. >A single story would probably not get reprinted more than once You sure about that? I have counted the story of Wonder Woman traveling to another world, literally getting Isekai'd and she's the criminal there, three times before the 80s. And there was a period before the first reboot of Wonder Woman in the 60s, where every single Mourston story was reprinted before we jumped to the "Modern Era" in Wonder Woman issue 98 I believe? >Remember that the entire point was the argument that Boruto would go away if people didn't like it, while western comics keep reprinting the same things over and over even if people don't like them. It's the opposite. The ones people like get reprinted, and not even that often unless they're some of the biggest ever. I remember but if that's the case then why don't a lot of the stories that did get reprinted in those decades never end up in the collections of "the Best of XXXXX"? What, editorial suddenly decided they were duds but somehow editors back then, able to read barely a hundred fan letters every month knew perfectly well what their adiences loved and were able to sort out the stories that would get reprinted? >good scans can be hard to find since a lot of these are scans of stories that only got printed once decades ago I know, I was part of that, literally almost 2 decades ago. Almost 2. >Timed exclusivity? A very modern gimmick, and still not equivalent to what you're actually arguing. Nope, this was more for desperation because I doubt you would have time exclusivity for 3 to 4 years and print only 1 set of books for those shops. Timed exclusivety was something I saw from other comic publishers at the time, like the Archie publisher but they've been doing something similar with their "special digests" from the 90s or something, maybe even the 80s and in countries outside of the US. Marvel did something like that for the PS4 Spiderman comics I believed but that wasn't the case for the DC titles I mentioned. >You're comparing the biggest American comics ever and then acting like you can't easily find reprints of the biggest Japanese comics ever. Ok, pause a little bit. What do you define as a "reprint" then? Because nowhere did I say that about DB or Naruto or other manga. Specifically, manga get only 1 print, ever. They just keep pumping out that print. A "reprint" of the manga would be the Kanzenban version, a phenomenon happening rarely and only for distinguished manga or for those that shaped a cultural aspect of japan's visual arts. An example would be the "Getter Robo Saga" volumes, 9 volumes including all the Getter Robo stories ever reprinted into one giant 9 volume collection. For the early Getter Robo stuff, that would be the third reprint while for something like Arc, it would be only the first reprint. If you want to count the transition from magazine to volume proper as a reprint, you can do it, it's no problem with me. Because if that's the hang-up and the miscommunication then maybe I fucked up. > Ougon Bat an alien who came to Earth as a baby and didn't know he was an alien until later, and it explains why he has special powers? Ougon Bat is Ougon Bat. When people are in danger he appears, laugh maniacally and trashes everything the villains do, in a similar way early Superman would appear and fuck shit up. > Also, Superman is a ripoff of Hugo Danner from Phillip Wylie's novel Gladiator. I think you mean Captain America. >Son Wukong is not an alien who came to earth as a baby. Not in the "xenomorph from another planet", no but Sun Wukong IS an alien. He is literally born from the Sky and the Earth falling in love and a stone egg falls from the Heavens atop a mountain and what comes out is a creature unlike any other : a monkey. That was before humans would walk the Earth and only Gods and the spirits existed and Wukong would go around shitting in their food and playing tricks on them because the Buddha and the Jade Emperor were fags. He was seen as a monster by the gods and as a trustworthy ally by humans, one of them being Sanzo, the monk who freed him out of kindness, despite Wukong's weird nature because by then, nature had birthed monkeys, so the humans weren't afraid of Wukong. Goku not being a mystical magc monkey and being an alien Spartan instead doesn't make him comperable to Superman, because you shifted the Heavens for Planet Vegeta but nothing changed. He didn't gain any powers from that revelation, he didn't grow because he was always Goku. Superman DID change. He chose to become a Super hero because he IS the Ubermench, because he is Christ at least a bit early on before the 50s just made him Super American Man which I find better And if you want a kick in the nuts, here's the thing : Superman, came out in 1938. Dragon Ball did come out in 1984 and the revelation of him being an alien in 1989 but even back in the 1930s, Japan did try to sci-fi some of their myths, because of the influence of various sci-fi writters back then from the west obviously and they were fascinated by the shit Russians were writting about "the future" back then with their space stations and shit. Just like Ougon Bat transitioned from a semi-mythical hero to one who'd also have sci-fi elements in his stories with his villains, so did some versions of classic folk tales, like Saiyuki, changed. >>312517 >You seriously think anyone would make the comparison in the same way if it wasn't for the retconned origin story? Yes! Because I lived through it. Nobody was fucking thinking it back then because no country outside of Japan had such a fucked up, atrocious and shitty dub as the american dubs. Ocean, that shitty "Big Green" dub or the Funimation dub, none of the other countries eve reached that level of shit. Heck, most of the dubs even altered or even outripped stripped the series of its Masami Kikuchi score in the first place. Meanwhile, funi babies were the first ones to call Goku superman because of clip related. Gives a bit of a different vibe, doesn't it? Especially when you consider what the "Super Saiyan" is supposed to be in the myth and I don't mean the fact that Toriyama got bored inking the hair and left it "white" and then claiming it was totally blonde And even if you go by the whole origin story shit, who wins in the end? Some folk tale circa 1592 that has been retold god knows how many times or some Messiah analogy from 1938 that happened to feature a "baby sent to another planet by a scientist", some 346 years later? Which becomes even more hilarious when you consider that Goku's father barely aknowledged his son yet the english dub went with "YOUR FATHER WAS A BRILLIANT SCIENTIST" shit that exists in no other fucking language to drive that and other similarities, home That whole Goku = Superman narrative was propagated by america and the american audience and was screeched until it became reality. Just like what those SJWs you hate so much, are trying to do with comic sales. > Sorry for offending you by using the word "you" on an anonymous imageboard. None taken, I was just confused. >>312049 >hot anime boys romancing each other for gay/bi guys and straight women, and hot anime girls romancing each other for gay/bi girls and straight guys. And that must never be allowed. >>312583 I remember watching the anime like right after reading the DB manga from the start. Goku's english speech is retarded, the Japanese ironically is exactly what he said in the manga which was significantly more in tune and how he achieved super saiyan. Dubs are shit besides the fact Goku was voiced by an old woman in JP which irked me >>309376 Oh christ its you again fuck off faggot, nobody cares about your obsession with making sure titties sag. >>312583 >about nips doing stuff with the american comic characters. For fuckingyears Marvel has been doing it and now even DC hoped on the fray and people went apeshit. Yes. Because it's not being made by people who actively hate the properties and are seeking to destroy them. You're proving my point. A lot of what you're saying seems to actually be agreeing with my point, as if we just got confused a long time ago and have both been arguing against the same thing the whole time. >No? Action always featured 1 Superman story, Detective always featured 1 Batman story, Brave and the Bold even had Batman or Superman stories before starting shaking things up, same with Adventure that would feature a Superman story along with a Superboy or Superbaby I don't remember the exact title but it was Superman as a baby before Supergirl came to the picture and Swapped out the Superman story of the month but by then Superman would also get Superman Family as a monthly book and at times even that would feature a story of Superman that was previously published in other monthly series, reprinted with either better lines or slightly better colours, years down the line. I said they didn't "just" focus on Superman and Batman. They always all had other series in them as well, even if Superman and Batman were the headliners. Each issue had multiple stories in it. That's the point of an anthology series. That's like saying Shonen Jump is just a One Piece series. Also, Superman Family was basically Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen merging with Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane and adding in stories about Supergirl and others while they were at it. Yes, Superman was the most successful comic series of all time and got a lot of spinoffs (but still less than characters like he or Batman have today). One of those spinoffs was his solo series, Superman, and then he also got other spinoffs in other anthology series. But they were still anthology series. They just threw in (original) Superman stories among their others. "Superman" was the only series that was nothing but Superman stories for a very long time (and there have been a few times since when they tried to change it back into an anthology series, though it never stuck), and those other ones were not reprint series, they were more original stories. We were arguing about reprints, remember. >You sure about that? I have counted the story of Wonder Woman traveling to another world, literally getting Isekai'd and she's the criminal there, three times before the 80s. And there was a period before the first reboot of Wonder Woman in the 60s, where every single Mourston story was reprinted before we jumped to the "Modern Era" in Wonder Woman issue 98 I believe? Wonder Woman is an uber-popular character and does not represent the average capeshit. Also, that "first reboot" was only in retrospect. You're actually correct that #98 is considered the first appearance of Earth-One Wonder Woman, but that was only years later after the multiverse was invented and then people started wondering why the characters who never got cancelled in the '50s (including Wonder Woman) were on both the JSA and the JLA if those were different universes, so they had to pick semi-arbitrary points when they could say "actually points before here were a completely different Wonder Woman who was almost exactly the same except she was on the JSA." Even after that, the "Earth-Two" stories are still mostly considered canon for Earth-One, except for things that are explicitly contradicted by later Earth-One continuity. I digress, but my point is that Wonder Woman was incredibly popular, so she would naturally have more reprints than most characters. But still, while you can find Wonder Woman 98 reprinted in black and white in those giant Showcase Presents volumes, which exist specifically to try to make it reasonable to legally read the whole series without seeking out decades old magazines that are now worth tons of money, Wonder Woman 97 is a whole other matter, because it's not an "important" issue. I'm also taking a quick look at the wiki and not seeing that period when every Marston story was reprinted. Maybe it happened after issue 98, which would not prove your point wrong. Or maybe you're thinking of the time in the '60s when fans started complaining about shit getting way too weird, so they promised, in an actual story where all the weird '60s characters were fired by the editor, to bring back the "Golden Age Wonder Woman." But the stories that followed were still original stories, just intentionally more in the style of pre-'60s stuff. Or maybe you're thinking of some other time. I doubt it, but I'm not gonna check every issue for the last 55 years to make sure. Still, if that happened, those would be reruns of popular stories, of the foundation stories of one of the most popular characters of all time. It's not the same as just reprinting things people don't like forever. It's just using reruns to keep a series going during a downturn. It would be equivalent to reprinting the first volume of Naruto a lot, not equivalent to reprinting Boruto a lot, which is what we were arguing about. Marston Wonder Woman stories obviously are not equivalent to a less popular sequel series. >I remember but if that's the case then why don't a lot of the stories that did get reprinted in those decades never end up in the collections of "the Best of XXXXX"? Well the obvious answer is that now there are more to choose from, so some of the previous best would get displaced. The next thing would be that a run of reruns would frequently be a run of stories in order, so the fact that they were reruns wouldn't be as jarring. My third answer would be that those "best of" collections are frequently shit and not the best way to read a series anyway. But they do tend to be stories that people talk about, and ones that would be more likely to sell (at least to casuals who don't realize that reading random issues out of order is rarely the best way to go about things). >that wasn't the case for the DC titles I mentioned. I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable about the specific DC series you mentioned. First, they sound like modern shit, and fuck that. Not only fuck that, but I'm specifically not trying to defend modern shit. Secondly, they obviously are made for casuals and not at all the same audience that keeps up with the mainstream series and universes. Third, none of this defeats my point that this isn't a case of them reprinting things people don't like forever. It's a case of them figuring they have some stories that haven't been marketed to a substantial part of their audience, so they put them in a format that audience might like and see if it sells. It's not the same as just reprinting volumes of Boruto or Carl Manvers to sit on shelves forever out of spite. >Specifically, manga get only 1 print, ever. They just keep pumping out that print. A "reprint" of the manga would be the Kanzenban version, Tankoban are already reprints, since the vast majority of the series in them are originally from anthologies like Shonen Jump or whatever. So that's two prints, not one ever. Secondly, if you're including eternal printings of that one version to not be a reprint, okay. That also significantly cuts down on the number of "reprints" that I was counting for capeshit. However, it also doesn't seem to fit your point, which seemed to be originally that they just keep trying to sell shit that people don't want, like Boruto. Either way, modern manga and modern comics work very similarly in terms of reprints. It's relatively easy for either to get a tankobon/tpb, and then really successful ones get kanzenban/hardcovers or other special things like that. Older comics used to also get reruns sometimes, if they were successful enough to sell but not successful enough to commission new material. Or sometimes just because the new material wasn't done on time and they had a deadline to meet (before they just decided to fuck deadlines and allow issues to come out late, which is a very modern development). But both of these scenarios were relatively rare, and mostly the case for things in anthology series. Now, all the manga I've ever read were either pirated or in reprints (tankoban or kanzenban), but I wouldn't be surprised if their anthology series have also occasionally done reruns, at least in decades past. Note that that practice hasn't been done in decades in American comics either. >If you want to count the transition from magazine to volume proper as a reprint, you can do it, it's no problem with me. If we don't count that as a reprint, then we can't count it for western comics either, and that does away with like 95% of the "reprints" I was counting for them. If I'm only counting times a story specifically gets published in two different collected editions as a single "reprint," (since the times they're just republished in reruns, while a thing that has happened, was rare back then and is now never done at all), then "reprints" almost never happen at all. Again, a few times for the most famous stories, but those are exceptional. Also, I can think of cases where they do multiple versions at different price points. Like Marvel Masterworks are color collections of the earliest issues of super successful series, while Marvel Essentials are black and whites of the same thing, but with twice as many issues per volume, if you wanna be cheaper. But again, these are for super popular things, and not the equivalent of Boruto. >Ougon Bat is Ougon Bat. When people are in danger he appears, laugh maniacally and trashes everything the villains do, in a similar way early Superman would appear and fuck shit up. Okay, then not the way people compare Superman and Goku, which is the origin story. >I think you mean Captain America. No, Jerry Siegel was asked about if he was influenced by Gladiator and denied ever reading it, but he wrote a review for a fanzine when he was in high school. DC would even just admit it eventually, and when Earth-Two Superman was erased from history after the Crisis on Infinite Earths, many of his exploits with the JSA were now said to instead be performed by Iron Munro, Hugo Danner's illegitimate son, because Gladiator was now public domain and they didn't give a shit anymore. It's pretty well accepted that Superman is a ripoff of Gladiator. Also Batman's first story, The Case of the Chemical Syndicate, is a straight ripoff of a story from The Shadow, Partners of Peril. They just converted it from text into a comic and gave the hero a slightly different costume. >Son Wukong Yeah I'm aware of his basic story. I think you can understand why people would see Goku's retconned origin and draw a closer comparison to Superman than to that. Your interpretation of the gods from Journey to the West as equivalent to the Saiyans or Frieza's army is interesting and totally works (even if I don't think Toriyama thinks that deeply about his ideas), but I'm sure you can understand why the Superman comparison is much more direct. Also, I'm sure you're aware of Supaman from Doctor Slump, which everyone brings up as evidence that Toriyama was a fan of Superman. I don't think that's very strong evidence. But those Superman movies were big in the '80s, and even though the Saiyan arc came out after the piece of shit Superman IV, people all over the world would be highly aware of the first three successful movies, and it's easy to see how a guy doing a comic about a strong guy who just saved the world with his strength might be influenced by this very popular and successful series which was extra popular and successful at the time. So when you see "alien with special powers raised as an earthling so he uses his powers to help earth," the comparison is extra obvious. >He didn't gain any powers from that revelation, he didn't grow because he was always Goku. Superman DID change. He chose to become a Super hero because he IS the Ubermench, because he is Christ at least a bit early on before the 50s just made him Super American Man which I find better I don't think you know much about Superman, especially Golden Age Superman. Someone in this thread was calling him Super-Jew or something earlier. Not sure if it was you, and not saying I would even agree with it, but christ analogues were not there when Jerry Siegel was still writing him, considering Siegel was jewish, and that Superman's alien origins were almost never referenced in the Golden Age at all outside of his first appearance. The '50s were when they started leaning much more heavily on the alien angle. Even then, I don't think there are many versions of Superman's origin that display him as becoming a hero because he finds out he's an alien. The usual point is that he becomes a hero specifically because he was raised as an Earthling, and specifically an American. Even in the first few years when Ma and Pa Kent weren't really a thing, they didn't talk about his alien origins in any way except to explain his powers, which basically only happened in the first story ever. By the time they started leaning on the alien stuff more, they were very clear that it was Ma and Pa Kent who made him a hero. This is as early as 1945, when they started publishing Superboy stories, and naturally started making the influence of his parents much more important. And in many versions they show that he was already doing hero stuff before he found out he was an alien. >>312585 >dubs Don't think for a second I'm advocating for dubs. I watched the Canadian dub as a kid, but in the last 20 years, have been subs only, and watched DB subbed several times. The point remains that it's absurd to not see a comparison between two characters who are sent to earth as babies and then raised by earthlings so they use their alien powers to defend the earth. Obviously there are other differences, but those similarities in the origin story are unmistakable. It's obviously not that Dragon Ball is a ripoff of Superman, but Goku's retconned origin is absurdly similar, and if it was truly unintentional, that's one hell of a coincidence. I don't even think saying it is a take on it would be an insult, because the twist of making his home planet a planet of bad guys is cool, and one that later Superman stories would dabble with to varying degrees (of course they always eventually reveal that it's not true and they were good guys). But still, that origin is absurdly close. Also, saying Goku's father was a "brilliant scientist" is obviously the dub referencing Superman, but do you think they came up with that out of thin air? they saw the origin story in the first episode and saw that it was Superman's, then inserted more Superman shit. It was stupid, but they almost surely did it because it was already there. The generic hero attitude they sometimes tried to give Goku might have just been bad writing and an attempt to make him more of a generic hero (and since Superman set the template for those, people think of Superman), but the "brilliant scientist" reference is too specific to not be deliberate, and as bad as they are, they clearly did it because they already saw an origin story that was almost as direct a reference. >Some folk tale circa 1592 that has been retold god knows how many times or some Messiah analogy from 1938 that happened to feature a "baby sent to another planet by a scientist", some 346 years later? The one that features an alien sent to earth as a baby who then uses his alien powers to fight for the planet that adopted him. Also he wasn't a messiah analogy until decades later. >>312570 Yeah that's a hell of a honey trap. No fuckin' thanks, m8. Thank you for your service, anon. >>312146 What does Riki-Oh have to do with political cartoons? >>313153 It's a pretty funny read especially considering what came out 20 and 30 years after its release which makes some heartfelt moments a bit too comical >>312366 You could make a book out of this thread >>312570 Wow. The greed of some devs really is off the charts. Any other game come close to this? >>313196 When I looked for the monthly subscription prices for WoW, I saw mounts for$25. Technically, the mounts for Maidens are $10 (2000D) >Non licensed super hero games. >What is a super hero. >An heroic type character with crazy powers. >Wears a really fucking dumb costume. >Has really annoy sidekick. >Normally his adventures would be rescuing his love interest from his arch foe. Heres your non licensed super hero game anons. >>313240 You're not wrong. A very large number of games effectively star superheroes. Sonic the Hedgheog has had a comic going for almost 30 years that is effectively just a capeshit comic with furries. Eggman is basically just '50s era Lex Luthor. Mega Man is just Astro Boy, and few would say Astro Boy isn't a superhero. Ratchet & Clank basically become professional superheroes by the second game, with the first being their origin story, specifically about how they replace the old superhero who turned out to be a phony. >>313196 Probably several chink gacha games. There used to be one called "Rush of Heroes", basically your generic mobile RPG-lite, but with a heavily-stylized "totally-not-WoW" aesthetic (vid related) https://yewtu.be/watch?v=NIy7AdgCSJg One of the systems was that if you paid X amount of money, you unlocked permanent benefits. The highest tier required something in the ballpark of$2100 to unlock. Polite sage for off-topic.
>>313249 >\$2100
>>313246 The moment video games starting putting out heroes it was over for American comics. What we see now with stuff like gay Iceman or black Superman is comic book companies DESPRATE to find new markets after they lost the old one to games. Also I find it fucking hilarious that a Japanese company can do a better Captain America type character than Marvel these days.
>>313250 >being poor
>>313273 The moment video games started putting characters that were effectively superheroes was decades before the stuff with gay Iceman and black Superman. By the same logic, one could argue the ridiculous rise of superhero movies also stole the comics audience, and that tv shows stole the comics audience before that. But that doesn't quite work, because there were popular tv shows and movies about non-DC or Marvel superheroes decades earlier, during the heights of those two companies. Nobody thought Disney's The Rocketeer was making kids not want to read Iron Man comics anymore. If anything, they spark interest in the genre, and thus encourage audiences to seek out that genre, even in other media. No, the real issue is just totally fucked distribution models and other more technical things like that.
>>313533 Anon video games replacing comics took decades but it happened non the less. Not only did game replace comics they also bitch slapped movies and music. It wasnt Super Mario is now a thing lets all suddenly bin our Superman comics it was a gradual leeching of the market but it happened non the less. We are now seeing the final fallout of this. US Comics are actually in the end days.
>>312570 It looks like the same thing with Paprium, from Watermelon Games. Tulio and his mob wanted people to "buy" virtual diamonds to be used to pay for the right to vote on the company's decisions. Anytime that anyone wants you to change real money for fake/virtual money, it is guaranteed to be a scam, just like it was with Watermelon Games, when they simply burned the money and didn't deliver on their promises until heavily pressured to.
>>313533 >if anything, they spark interest in the genre, and thus encourage audiences to seek out that genre, even in other media its not nearly as effective as one thinks, sure interest is sparked but it isn't retained, newcomers check out the book and then leave. And the relation between comics and movie you described aren't share. Good comic sales don't mean an increase in box office tickets to the movies
>>313431 My money stays with me, corporate cuck.
I don't understand why Marvel and DC Comics use this multiverse bullshit in the first place. Do they do this to milk their audiences to see their favorite superheroes for more action or something? >>285414 >Viewtiful Joe Capcom has some good IPs and they don't plan to revive them soon, they are just the same as Nintendo. >>312150 >Also Goku is Superman. At Dragon Ball Z, he is, but he's supposed to be a copy of Sun Wukong from Journey to the West went the first Dragon Ball was around. I don't know why Toriyama included space and alien shit in Dragon Ball Z, it just ruins the mysticism that the first series had.
>>313843 Isn't Journey to the West literally just power-level bullshit through and through? I didn't finish the book because it was so goddamn long but most of it seems to be Sun Wukong fighting gods and getting into trouble for being a literal troublemaking monkey.
>>313843 >Capcom has some good IPs and they don't plan to revive them soon, they are just the same as Nintendo. So highly successful then? F-Zero is never coming back move on Anon.
>>313754 The game itself isn't exactly much better either. The fact that they charge money on a test build is something already terrible, but it's shaped up like some aimless project with ideas executed terribly and meaningless filler. It's basically just >grinding for everything, only paying for premium seems to help >uninspired zones that look more like multiplayer maps than actual MMO maps, everything is symetrical or square >balance fubar, where a squad of level 10-15 mobs are cannon fodder, but a lvl 1 stronghold boss can wipe the floor with you the first time you meet her >the stronghold bosses from the two combat zones have exactly the same moves and voice, one just has more health >combat (as warrior, didn't try the other classes) boils down to one sword combo, an AR and Rocket launcher, and two nukes >a body customization system that is honestly pretty great, but is full of paywalls so there's no point >A story that boils down to "female thanos with daddy issues wants to kill all humanity" >somehow, there's lots of voice acting, like it was the top priority for this kind of game >shitty rewards for shitty daily quests like a gacha game, forcing you to do meaningless shit instead of doing stuff you want It's just a proof of concept, it's not even alpha at this point.
>tl;dr: The multiverse exists because of autism causing DC Comics trying to have their cake and eat it to, be rebooting characters while keeping the old versions around.
This is all a very interesting discussion and I thank the anon for his walls of text, but where are the superpowered fat titties and asses?
>>314094 >>314095 I always knew i hate the flash family for a reason not really but flashpoint and the preceding retardation made me leave in disgust >>314103 Comics dont do that anymore. You'll have a ugly man and like it instead.
>>314103 Good question.
>>314103 >but where are the superpowered fat titties and asses? Here you go anon. >>314382 >10ton <Not the superior drawn version by Horikoshi's former assistant Shamefur dispray
>>314105 >not really but flashpoint and the preceding retardation made me leave in disgust New 52 really isn't as bad as people say. Most stuff was still canon, and there were some cool stories. Then with Rebirth a few years later they clarified that most of the stuff that people thought wasn't canon anymore actually still was. But this was also right around the time the SJW shit started really creeping in, so it gets rough. But there were still good stories. Marvel got infested much faster than DC. >>314103 Go read modern comics and you'll find plenty of fat asses. No titties though. Somehow the superpowers make it so all those fat women can not have titties.
>>314103 I wish i knew how to link to other boards. https://8chan.moe/co/res/2073.html
Damn, I've been thinking about fucking sexy superheroines for three days straight. Send help.
>>314744 Linking to other boards has been the same since 2003
>>314880 Most superheroines would be bad to fuck, though. At least the ones with super strength. Either they'd feel nothing due to either super tough skin or simply you not living up to literal god-like standards of stamina, or you would do a good job, and their spasms would clamp your dick off. There are reasons Supergirl and Power Girl never have long term love interests, and this is basically why Wonder Woman cucked Steve Trevor with Superman for a while. But thankfully that got erased from history by Superman's soul merging with the Superman off a splinter timeline who was older and married Lois Lane 11 years ago instead of staying single and fucking Wonder Woman later.
>>314560 Going to have to disagree, I lasted a few more years before i left and the writing was on the wall i recognized a shit show when i saw it. the real irony? It wasn't the fact they turned Wally black that made me leave, its the fact that they wrote the original wally so bat shit fucking insane to prop up their diversity flash that made me leave. In modern comics its not enough to simply change a characters color, you have to basically destroy their legacy character to prop up the new token. It happens everytime from marvel to dc. If anons didn't recommend manga i'd have gone insane.
>>315272 >the real irony? It wasn't the fact they turned Wally black that made me leave, its the fact that they wrote the original wally so bat shit fucking insane to prop up their diversity flash that made me leave. Very true, but then they immediately had to do another series to explain away the previous series where they tried to make Wally a bad guy. Oh the writing was on the wall, but the back and forth there showed that there were still those trying to listen to reason and stop the SJWs. Also, the original Wally didn't come back until Rebirth. His coming back basically is what Rebirth is. New 52 would be the era after Flashpoint. I get if people call the era until Rebirth all New 52, even though technically they stopped calling it New 52 like a year before Rebirth, but Rebirth is a different thing, as much as you can say any of these eras are different things.
>>315350 >Also, the original Wally didn't come back until Rebirth. His coming back basically is what Rebirth is. New 52 would be the era after Flashpoint. I get if people call the era until Rebirth all New 52, even though technically they stopped calling it New 52 like a year before Rebirth, but Rebirth is a different thing, as much as you can say any of these eras are different things. The Crisis on Infinite Earths was a mistake holy shit.
>>315415 I'm curious if you've watched the CW crossover based on that? Because that was an abomination if not a mistake.
>>315264 I'm willing to risk it, for super tits.
>>315424 Every bone in your body will break and you will be ridden even after you lose consciousness because no mortal can have stamina equivalent to a superheroine. Are you sure about this?
>>315426 That's why you find one that doesn't have powers like Huntress. And I mean she already has a history in the DCAU of teaming up with conspiracy obsessed loners so Anon actually has a pretty good shot.
>>315435 Yeah but Huntress and I suppose the rest of the batman-esque superheroines/villanesses are also supposed to be the peak of physical fitness so I doubt the outcome will be different. I like huntress though, I fucking hate whatever the live action incarnation in the shitshow that is the DC movie universe was supposed to be. Speaking of which, what the actual fuck is the DC movie universe? How the hell did it even go past the first movie?
>>315426 No guts no glory, faggot.
>>315426 >Every bone in your body will break and you will be ridden even after you lose consciousness
>>315264 My girl Rogue would be fine as you are wearing a full body condom.
>>315426 Unless you fuck a hero who can't control their powers there's this thing called being able to control your muscles and strength.
>>315518 You must have the most boring orgasms
>>315426 This is also the appeal of Klingon women.
>>315264 Do their vaginas need super strength?
>>315478 There is a version of Huntress in the live action DC movies? I thought the only live action Huntress was that terrible Birds of Prey tv show that seemed like a spinoff of Smallville but wasn't. Do you mean that tv universe? I can't be bothered to keep up with that shit anymore. I could believe that a version of Huntress has appeared in that Batwoman tv show, but I ain't watchin' that shit. Seasons 2 and 3 of Flash and seasons 1 and 2 of Legends of Tomorrow are really good, but everything drops off a cliff after that. Also everything before that sucks too. Also Arrow and Supergirl suck even at the same time that Flash and Legends were good. But still, those two seasons each of those two shows were good. >Speaking of which, what the actual fuck is the DC movie universe? How the hell did it even go past the first movie? The first movie was Man of Steel, and it had no signs of shared universe shit. Then it underperformed, so they immediately announced that the next movie wouldn't just be a Superman sequel, it would be Batman v. Superman, and would also feature Wonder Woman and the rest of the Justice League for some reason. So basically, it got past the first movie due to sheer greed and stupidity. And this continued, as when Batman v Superman got way worse reception than Man of Steel, instead of thinking this might be partially related to trying to cram 10 Marvel Movies worth of Avengers autism into a single movie, they attributed it wholly to having a "dark" tone, so they figured mashing Queen songs into Suicide Squad would magically make it a good movie, and getting Joss Whedon to butcher Justice League would somehow make it better, but actually, it turns out they only figured out a way to turn crap into shit. But we only found that out because AT&T forced WB to release the director's cut of the movie, which people were loudly demanding, and WB was literally refusing to take their money, because it would prove how truly incompetent the WB execs are. Because since they butchered Justice League, they released pieces of shit like Birds of Prey, which is universally hated and made no money. But they want to keep making things like that, and even though the release of the Snyder Cut has proven that people want that more than the SJW shit, they're determined to keep going with the SJW shit. So set aside your taste and the fact that the Snyder Cut is still bad, but WB execs are literally turning down money because they refuse to acknowledge the reality that people hate SJW shit. tl;dr: The DC Movie Universe started due to greed and incompetence, and now continues out of sheer SJW spite for normalfags.
>>315435 If she doesn't have powers she's just a regular fit woman. They exist in real life. They're just hard to get, and they'd be even harder to get if they fought crime in their spare time. >>315518 If you're any good, you're supposed to make it so a woman can't control certain muscles and strength, you limp-dicked faggot. >>315541 It's semi-canon (as in explicitly mentioned in some versions but not all) that Superman needed to train to be able to fuck Lois Lane without killing her with his cumshot. Equivalent problems would probably be faced by female Kryptonians and other super-strengthed individuals. Supergirl is also usually shown as having less control over her abilities than Superman, if for no other reason than getting her powers more recently. Wonder Woman is supposed to be super graceful, so maybe she could control it, but if she's that graceful, she probably just wouldn't fuck you in the first place. She'd be chaste. You could try to rape, but good luck getting through that super vagina. You could tie her up and remove her powers, but then what's the point?
Hey anon, want to play as teenage superheroines? Here you go. >>315824 The live action huntress is in Birds of Prey, the shitty movie.
>>315943 >super teen girls >not super milfs
>>315943 Hey, didn't you want Super titties earlier? >>314103 Here you go >MFW the game will probably also have the Power Girl costume My dick is not ready. >>316143 Assuming they don't nigger it up, that's probably or next season.
And something from the show for good measure.
>>316159 >that's probably or next season. CAN'T WAIT Is this show any ggod? it looks like it's shit for little girls.
>>316197 >it looks like it's shit for little girls Because is shit for little girls created just to sell toys.
>>315943 You know I didn't expect that show to get a video game adaptation. its looks ok but all I can think about is the one sfx in the menu sounding exactly the same as the one is breath of the wild. >>314889 That doesn't stop me from forgetting how to do it.
>>316197 It's fun. Thankfully it didn't have bronies attached to it, to my knowledge and its quite popular in nipland. Faust is out of the project. >>316212 Kinda. It's a continuation of some short clips Lauren Faust did years back fo CN, that were basically Supergirl + Batgirl + Wonder Girl as a Buttercup + Bubbles + Blossom type of thing but with DC characters. Then the toyline you mentioned kicked off by Shea Fontana, that thing ended and the network and DC gave Lauren Faut the reigns of the series to do with as she pleased. The results are what you have now. The toy sales aren't as good as the previous series but it has more fans buying other stuff. Faust's not attached to the project anymore so it could go either way but the ideas revolved around the girls growing until the last year of high school until they become proper superwomen / super milfs. So unless they pull it for 8+ seasons, you'd be seeing it next season. >>316223 It's even more unexpected that it's TOYBOX behind the game, a japanese company and they seem to do better with each trailer.

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