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Designs/mechanics or just things that are way more prevalent than they deserve to be Anonymous 09/24/2021 (Fri) 05:23:33 Id: fe0361 No. 424531
Instead of the shit cuckchan OP, how about designs/mechanics or just things that are way more prevalent than they deserve to be. New or old, things that are so prioritized that everyone follows it and others mechanics gets depreciated. In Mad Max, they have no reason to put a Arkham style hand-to-hand combat. Actually, so does so many games where they just put this style just because it looks cool, even though it doesn't have martial arts or kung fu shit in it. It stiffled all other types of melee combat (especially third person) and attack-counter 2 button combat. Mad Max with a clunky ass melee system with random shit and you being overwhelmed in all directions would suit it so much more. Here you have enemies 360 surround you then attack one at a time so you can easily counter them. Timing your reactions are good, simple-to-learn-but-difficult-to-master is good for Batman games, but in Mad Max this takes away the survival aspect of wasteland.
>>424531 And for some reason, there isn't a kung fu game using this combat system despite being best suited for this.
>>424533 Do they even make kung fu games anymore? I'm sure any western studio trying to make a old fun wuxia style game would get slammed from all corners with charges of "racism" and "cultural appropriation".
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Well, I still hate Quick Time Events. It's a cheap way to make "cinematic" moments imo, since it's basically a cutscene with mindless button mashing. I don't find God of War's boss battles impressive anymore. Any dev can make a "cool" QTE and it's fucking everywhere in video games now. On the flipside, I still find SotC's boss battles to be a technical marvel. All the climbing you do is in real time and supported by the game's climbing mechanics. None of it is a QTE. When you jump and grab onto that bird and it carries you into the sky, it's all done in real time.
>>424536 >what is ghost of tsushima In fairness unless they try to appeal to mainland china and its people by marketing as "authentic chinese cuisine" or some, they won't be targeted. Just make it in style of Hong Kong action cinema, or older jackie chan/jet li movies, paying homage and set it in fictional place. American asians are falling down in privilege meter stack currently so some pink hair won't raise their voices for them. >>424550 On a plus side I see this trend as falling recently, fewer games are going with qtes. 2021 releases are completely void of this.
Games where everything pauses while characters decide what to do, and then everyone just trades hits one at a time, in a nice orderly fashion. Since it's not your turn, you have to sit there and let an enemy hit you, like an idiot. Micro-cephalic idiots say it helps you develop strategy, but you can do that when things are actually moving, too. Just don't be an idiot that takes too long to think. Learn to think on your feet. They also say it helps with controlling multiple characters at the same time, but really that just means that controlling those multiple characters is stupid, and you'd be better off saying they're a single character and enemies can disable different abilities by targeting different parts of the character, because that's effectively what's happening. It's no different. Or you can just switch between characters in real time, like plenty of games do. And their complaint is that then when you aren't controlling a character, either it's controlled by AI, or it doesn't move at all. But that's what happens in these games anyway. When an enemy attacks a character, if your character dodges or blocks isn't up to you anyway, it's up to the game rolling some dice, which is just a primitive and shitty form of AI. No, the real reason this is done is because the games that originally did it were badly aping games from a whole other medium, and not taking proper advantage of the technology at their disposal. Then other games copied those first video games that did it, unthinkingly, because it's easier than programming actual combat, which would require all sorts of things, like collision detection, actual movement mechanics, and other things that every other game can do, but this stupid genre decides not to. I find it funny how monster games like Pokemon and Digimon make your lack of control an actual mechanic, where you aren't actually playing as the characters that fight, and those characters can decide not to listen to you, but it doesn't matter if there is a plot-excuse for this bad gameplay, it still doesn't make it fun.
>>424927 >Since it's not your turn, you have to sit there and let an enemy hit you, like an idiot. I take it that you haven't play a real JRPG outside of Pokemon. Grandia, Final Fantasy, and Parasite Eve fixed that issue AGES ago.
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>>424550 Even more infuriating is how much better QTEs can be made by few simple changes - just don't make the button prompts different than regular gameplay. The character is running in cutscene? Just make them hold the run button. Player is dodging falling rocks? Just make the button prompt to left-right movement. Player is struggling to escape? Have them mash ALL the buttons and it fills the meter. That's it. Problems with qte solved. Now its just regular gameplay with a cinematic camera angle. They handle it in-engine so it should be easy. But no they gotta make it like pressing a play-pause-rewind on a cassette player just to change the sides. pic related is a better example of qte done as actual gameplay
>>424946 Haven't played Parasite Eve, but most Final Fantasy games do exactly that. Except I hear the new ones do that awful thing where they act like it's real time but then still rely on dicerolls instead of relying on if a weapon actually hit a character. Nothing worse than seeing your sword go directly through an enemy only for it to say "MISS." Which happens in tons of turn based games, but there you know you didn't really have control anyway, and it's just about them being too lazy to animate movement. Here it's just that they're too lazy to program proper collision or something. Absolutely awful. So yeah, maybe that's even worse than what I originally said, and I should have listed it first. But I also still stand by what I said. >>424948 Even with what you say, the problem remains that it takes away most of a player's regular level of control, and that sucks.
>>424957 I don't generally mind having controls taken away in a cutscene, just that in qte where controls are not what they're supposed to do in gameplay. Even having camera angles changed is fine, just have some consistency. Actually, to your point, what does qtes have that regular gameplay doesn't?
>>425049 >just have some consistency. Isn't the lack of consistency the whole point? Artificially change controls and perspective to produce muh struggle and urgency
>>424957 >Nothing worse than seeing your sword go directly through an enemy only for it to say "MISS." RPGs are not for you. I am not being ironic or disparaging, literally play something else.
>>424533 The last good kung fu game was Sleeping Dogs and Yakuza but it could be improved a lot. >>425058 Some changes are fine, some aren't. Finding which is which is the mark of good development. >>424531 Minor Pet Peeve but Orchestral scores in video games are just overdone now. Trying to score emotional points with Violin and Piano works well but its being saturated now. A shame because most music in vidya is great, even AAA ones. But needs more variety, and indies are the only one trying
>>425072 Alright. What about parry indicators such as in classic ass creed or batman? Would that be considered a type of QTE or just a casualization of older mechanics. Or say some of those mechanics where you need to press whatever on a scale in the specific spot to get a faster reload? I mean are QTE exclusively a key mashing segment with no other agency or purpose, because if so they're absolutely worthless shoehorned cancer in any and all situations
>>425079 >What about parry indicators such as in classic ass creed or batman? Would that be considered a type of QTE or just a casualization of older mechanics. The latter. Older games had the player parrying attacks by watching the enemy and pressing the right button at the right time. Now, games have some sort of indicator, sometimes even with a finishing QTE.
>>425065 Action RPGs, not the fake kind like I described, do exist. Those are better. But the concept of your character getting better instead of the player getting better is still a shit mechanic just to allow idiots to bash their heads against the wall until it cracks, instead of making them get good. Like how IGA said he made Symphony of the Night an RPG because he wanted to make it easy enough for anyone to beat. Of course anyone could beat the previous games, they just needed to learn how to play them properly. With Symphony of the Night, you don't. You can just grind until your character is overpowered enough to win despite your lack of skill. >>425092 I recall at least Arkham Asylum allowed you to turn off the flashes above enemy's heads, and I think actually pointed this option out for you near the beginning of the game. That game becomes much more fun and interesting if you do that, and limit Batman's Skele-Vision to situations where it's actually required. Of course, it becomes much harder, then, because if you don't leave Skele-Vision on all the time, you're just playing sub-optimally, even though you don't get to appreciate any of the game's graphics. I think there were a couple enemies or attacks in the series that you couldn't see with it on, but not enough to be significant. The game would have benefited immensely if you could only see in X-ray in specific situations, like particular rooms, or after acquiring a consumable item that let you turn it on for a limited time. Or actually, a combination of both would probably be best, so that the item could be actually limited, and if you waste it, you either win without it, or lose and have it respawn, but either way you use it in its intended situation or don't. You can't just leave it on the entire game. Basically, the game is better on Hard Mode, but it should have a mode that's harder than that by limiting Detective Vision more. But at least the first game encourages you a little to turn off the lightning coming out of peoples' heads.
>>424831 Even with that one they virtue signaled about how they weren't going to feature any real life historical people because it would have been insensitive.
>>425112 >Real RPGs are fake >Actual RPG mechanics are bad because they're not for me Ask me how I know you're a casual. Seriously, play Zelda instead.
You know what I really hate? Video game characters have to talk ALL THE TIME. Even during battle. It's obnoxious and distracting. RPG characters chatting through the entire battle is the worst thing ever. >>425049 >>424957 In all honesty I'd rather just have a cutscene play.
>>425188 I think cutscenes work best as breaks in action. In some games they can be pseudo-rewards that play after achieving some goal, or show character interactions ideally based on choices made during regular gameplay. They can be good pacing tools. People who say all cutscenes are terrible are mostly overreacting to excessive cutscenes bloating up their playtime, which is rational, but no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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>>425188 Try using your dick instead of a toaster to unjam a piece of bread and having it stuck, burnt and electrocuted at the same time and then tell me some vidya fags chatting is the worst. thing. ever.
>>424927 >>424957 I remember you. Still too autistic to understand abstraction, I see.
>>425199 I'm not against cutscenes in games, I just wish they'd remove the godawful pacing of them. 5 minutes should be the limit, 3 minutes should be the goal/average, and anything longer than 10 needs to go back to the drawing board.
>>425348 What about ending cutscenes?
>>424531 The timer in 2D Super Mario games. The single most retarded game mechanic ever.
>>425348 I'd like to add on to this, the "placebo" walk where you all you is watch a cut-scene, then you get gameplay control and all you can do is walk down a corridor which triggers yet another fucking cut-scene. DON'T GIVE THE ILLUSION OF CONTROL IF YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE IT AWAY YOU FUCKING RETARDS! JUST PLAY THE CUT-SCENES BACK TO BACK WITH A TRANSITION SCENE!! LET ME PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!!!
>>424536 The newest one I know of is Sifu, although God knows how the fuck that's going to play.
>>425587 No timers had a purpose in those old games, and I just don't mean Mario games. Timers goad you forward instead of allowing you to slowly pick your way through a stage. It increases the tension that the player feels.
>>425188 nah i like when the characters talk non stop -t. RTS enjoyer
>>424927 >>424957 I'm assuming that Morrowind gives you aneurysms. Not disagreeing or agreeing with you,just checking. It just kinda sounds like you don't like (J)RPGs,my dude.Which is ok,but it's not really a failiure on the part of the games either
A minor one, not a mechanic but a design choice. I hate segments of games where its just running forward, through a corridor for like ten seconds only to trigger a cutscene. Just trigger the cutscene.
>>425700 >>425587 >Timers goad you forward instead of allowing you to slowly pick your way through a stage. It increases the tension that the player feels. Yeah, so you die and put in new coins or let someone else play on the slot machine. Just like the lives mechanic across levels. There is no point to start from the very first level just because you fucked up. Except to make you put in fresh money. Stop glorifying loot crates, real money shops, boosters and pay to continue mechanics.
>>425587 >The single most retarded game mechanic ever. <In a game where you get more points for completing a level faster
>>425587 Yeah it's retarded, because even if you're really slow you still somehow manage to finish the level before the timer ends.
>>425782 It spawned speed running. My logic remains sound and my statement stands.
>>424927 >He's back Still assblasted the turn-based fags tore you a new asshole?
>>425175 >>Real RPGs are fake I wasn't saying they were fake RPGs, I was saying they were fake Action RPGs. They pretend to be action based but the action is the most half assed thing, keeping all the worst turn-based mechanics. >Actual RPG mechanics are bad because they're not for me No, they're bad because they're for casuals that don't want to get good and would rather just bash their head against the wall until their character gets better for them. >Ask me how I know you're a casual. Seriously, play Zelda instead. But RPGs are the games for casuals. Symphony of the Night turned the Castlevania series into an RPG specifically to cater to casuals who didn't want to get good. But yes, Zelda is better than RPGs. Although Zelda 2 is kind of an RPG. The RPG mechanics are the worst part about it. Most notably the random encounters, but also the actual leveling system, which, as usual, just exists so that if someone bashes their head against the wall long enough their character will get overpowered enough to make the game easy. >>425188 I think characters talking during battle is a great way to express story without stopping action, depending on the specific context. If it is stopping the action and the dialogue takes place between turns in a turn based game I can see how that sucks. But if you have a firefight or something and are talking to a guy on the radio, that's a better way to communicate the story than a cutscene that just stops the action. >>425199 This. Cutscenes used to be rewarding in the '80s and '90s. You played to get to the cutscene at the end. Now they're overused and ruined.
Is there any third person action gaem that lets you alter your character's attack mid-animation? I always found it dumb when in a game like Dork Souls your character hefts his big two handed sword/axe to his back to do a straight vertical slice which takes like 5 seconds with no way to cancel the attack or alter the sword's direction in response to the enemy, with how slow some of these games' animations are something like matching weapon angles to get a better block/parry shouldn't be too difficult for the hardcore reddit audience.
>>425846 RPGfags don't have the skills to actually win. They just have the patience to grind until the enemy goes home. They made no arguments, and if they happened to keep replying with the same tired responses which amounted to "well I like it so you're wrong," after I forgot to keep checking the thread, that doesn't change the fact that they made no actual arguments. >>425313 Understanding it doesn't make it fun. I remember your shit argument from before, too. It doesn't make it fun to see your character sit there and take a hit, and the only thing that can save you isn't your own skill, but a dice roll. No, doing things in advance that increase the odds of winning a dice roll doesn't make it significantly better. The actual "abstraction" is just abstracting skill into RNG. It's a bad mechanic, in a genre made of bad mechanics. >>425700 Timers are almost always lame because they discourage exploration, which is fun. Timers are fun in specific instances but not when it covers an entire location or an entire game. And even when the timer is more time than you need that "tension" still just discourages exploration. Let me do a Time Trial when I want, and get fast then, but also have the option to go slow and explore if I want. Even if you need to go fast to advance, fine, as long as I still have the option of going slow and looking around, then starting over and going fast. But when you just die because you're too slow, outside of a specific mission where that's the point, it is usually lame. >>425721 You're correct on everything, except it is the fault of the games because I can explain why they're full of objectively stupid mechanics. >>425765 Going back to the beginning of the game when you lose all your lives can sometimes make sense depending on the game. The point is to actually make you get good enough to only fuck up a certain number of times before you beat the game. A lot of games become much too easy with infinite lives, and in order to compensate for that difficulty, other games have to become much more difficult in each individual level to justify infinite lives. That said, I admit I usually like games with infinite lives more. >>425782 >points >in a game where points don't matter at all, helping to begin a trend of points almost never mattering again in almost any game ever
>>425907 >>425907 >after I forgot to keep checking the thread, that doesn't change the fact that they made no actual arguments. If you're going to lie at least lie convincingly. You brought up points that were only made after you stopped replying in the last thread. Continue to mald you fag.
>>425911 People bring up the same points all the time. That's how I already know responses to every one.
>>425914 sure anon, sure.
>>425915 Once you're on /v/ long enough you'll realize you're just having the same conversations over and over again. I don't think I've had an original conversation on here since like 2014, and that's only because Gamergate happened. Otherwise I'd say like 2011.
>>425916 Autstic people often project their repetitive thoughts on others.
>>425917 Hence the repetition on a board that is essentially the Mecca of autism.
>>424531 the dot lock-on that Demon's Souls popularized. that shit, in combination with the garbage controls and camera, has ruined third person action games for me since 2008. I was hoping we'd get numerous Ninja Gaiden- and DMC-like games over the years as developers got better at copying the best-in-class action games. instead, they went for the braindead route because modern devs are just diversity hire shitters.
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>>425916 >>425919 More like games have barely changed for 10 fucking years.
>>425922 That too.
>>425920 >he dot lock-on that Demon's Souls popularized. that shit, in combination with the garbage controls and camera, has ruined third person action games for me since 2008. Lol, dot lock on was around for years before demon's souls (which wasn't even that popular, hence why nobody started cloning soulshit until dark souls). The only commonality it has with asscreed esque combat is that you don't like both. Which is fine, but you are deluded to see any causal connection between the two aside from them both being widely copied >I was hoping we'd get numerous Ninja Gaiden- and DMC-like games over the years as developers got better at copying the best-in-class action games. We did, most of those games that copied were much shittier than those games (see Van helsing and that a nightmare before Christmas game). Then God of war came along, and most action games followed that games formula closer.
>>425907 Interesting that you avoided the comments you didn't have deflections for. I'm sure I'm not the only one who plays multiple kinds of RPGs and doesn't feel the need to base my identity on one particular type of them. A good pure RPG requires you to make your character more effective to win, a good action game requires you to make yourself more effective to win, and the best action RPGs do both. You are so buttdevastated (for what reason, I won't speculate) that you came back to follow up on your dissonant rationalization. I don't know what's wrong with your brain that you rage when people enjoy something you don't like, but the solution is very simple. Just play the games you like. RPGs are not for you. Ask yourself: Why does that enrage you, and why does that rage compel you to rationalize your preference in such an autistic way?
>>424531 Stat progression mechanics are cancer and appeal to the worst subhumans in gaming.
>>425926 >The only commonality it has with asscreed esque combat >you are deluded to see any causal connection between the two a schizoid, projecting shitposter replies - NICE!
>>426551 what's the causal connection between the two then, anon?
>>425920 Devs don't copy the best mechanics, they copy the most visible and advertised mechanic. And camera lock on on 3rd person is fine when you have a big enemy whose attacks you have to dodge and fodder enemies running around, but dark souls, lol
>>425898 I don't think games without fast paced combat can allow animation cancelling, like block in many games can cancel your attacks but chaining attacks mid animation is few and between.
>>425898 Canceling is the staple of the Cuhraaze/Character-Action/Spectacle-Fighter genre,your Devil May Crys and Bayonettas. >>426593 The presence of cancels by itself speeds up any combat pace,this is pretty hard to compensate for since any solution will hurt either the ones who have yet to gained expertise in canceling or the potential uses of the cancel mechanic.i.e. If you slow down attack animations to account for them being canceled then players who can't do it will find the controls to be too sluggish. So I understand why games that are trying to go for a slower pace mostly leave them out,even though they are always nice to have and add basically free depth to any combat system.
>>424533 >>424536 >>425699 Kung fu with arkham combat would be cool as hell, with different styles accommodating different characters. Maybe Jackie Chan styled fast paced back and forth would be too complicated, but older Raymond Chow and Yuen Woo ping is good for this. And you don't need crowds to swarm upon you just one on one fights can be brilliant. You'd have to find openings while countering repeated and attack once an opening occurs. Add a bit of acrobatics and separate legs and hand attacks and you have a solid combat system.
>>427250 There's a Taiwanese game that had quite a fun combat system, was called Kung Fu Strike. It had a ridiculously cool secret move called a bushido kick or something where you do a jumping attack three times in a row with a rhythm and the last time your character does a sick spinning kick that could counter enemy critical attacks without you needing to spend any of your meter. The issue with that game (besides the version being sold being outdated and the developer disappeared) is that it was quite the ballbuster in terms of difficulty, and move unlocks were tied to what difficulty you were playing so if you were like me and played on normal/hard off the bat you'd play the entire game without unlocking the very vital low kick move that lets you deal with blocking enemies.
>>427031 Cancelling attacks and chaining a different attack in slow/medium paved combat will be lots of fun, in multiplayer you can juke out your opponent by starting one attack, wait for him to prepare to counter, and immediately changing to something else to fuck him up. One on one matches like this would be actually tense and rewarding, and be a casual filter too. But would be hard to implement without animation cut off and janky coding, not to mention easy to exploit. >>427255 Was it a side by side fighting game? Actually chaining attacks instead of building a combo meter should be the next target of fighting games, rather than chasing esports and EffGeeCee
>>427379 Looks really fun.
>>427488 I'll try to find the updated version again and see if it still has a DL. I really wish I could play the game again. I had recorded some shit for it way a few years ago too.
>>427488 So I looked around and apparently the updated version is out for "free" on the dev's website, which can then be patched to use English instead of Chinese. The issue is that the game's installer is in .msi and I'm not going to put something that may or may not be chinese developed(it's hard for me to figure out) with that fucking format on my PC.
>>425927 >the best action RPGs do both. I'm not opposed to the action aspects. Those are good. I'm not arguing against those. >I don't know what's wrong with your brain that you rage when people enjoy something you don't like Where do you think you are? What site do you think you're on? What thread do you think this is? I don't know which of my posts implied butthurt. Autism, sure, but anyone here should know that any time you accuse someone of butthurt, and any time they accuse you of being butthurt, chances are you're both typing perfectly calmly, and having fun. That's why we're here. But if you are the first to accuse someone of butthurt, it's usually projection. >Just play the games you like. RPGs are not for you. What do you think this thread is about? You could take any of the mechanics in this thread and say "well those games just aren't for you." Sorry you have bad taste and like objectively bad mechanics. You know they're objectively bad because you didn't make any actual arguments in your post. Calling someone butthurt isn't an argument. I'm talking about mechanics, you're talking about genres. But you like a genre made of bad mechanics. Just admit you play games for story and would be fine with a walking simulator if it had the right story. You're allowed to like bad games. I'm allowed to point out why the mechanics that make those games are bad.
>>427692 You got arguments in the last thread and disappeared when the entire thread turned agianst you for insisting trun-based games arne't an objectivtly better way to play games where you have to control a small squad of characters and started saying "just make them AI controlled". There's nothing left to argue, it's better to just mock you since you aren't the kind of autist anybody on the board likes.
>>427715 >You got arguments in the last thread and disappeared Sorry for not being online for too long. I'll do better and try to be more autistic in the future. >an objectivtly better way to play games where you have to control a small squad of characters and started saying "just make them AI controlled". No, I said that would be better, not that it would be good. You never "have" to control multiple characters. That's a decision. And if you think that making the game turn based is the best way to do that, then it's a bad decision. There are concepts that don't make for good video games, and if that's the best way that you can think of to execute that concept, then you've got a bad game. I said all this in that thread, too, but you just chose to ignore it, like you are now. I have also responded to that argument in this thread as well. Functionally, having a team of characters is no different from having one character with their powers, perhaps with sets of powers you can swap between, with their own HP for each set. A team of guys is no different from, say, a mech game where enemies can target your arm until your arm is damaged and you can't use it anymore. Now, this argument does have a flaw, I admit, in the situation of characters moving independently, and thus being in many different places. However, this doesn't even apply to a huge swath of JRPGs, the ones I'm talking about most specifically, where two teams just stand in lines and trade hits with one and other. Final Fantasy Tactics is a vast improvement over every other Final Fantasy game. But of course at that point, there are a lot of games that do combat like that without being turn based. They're called RTS games, and they are much better. Not that they aren't without their problems as well. But at least your character doesn't just sit there and let himself take a sword in the face because he lost a dice roll.
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>>427723 >I said all this in that thread, too, but you just chose to ignore it, like you are now. I didn't ignore it, I quoted it and mocked you like now. Here have a you for the rest of your post that I didn't read.
<turn based games make me feel bad <therefore this is an objective fact about the entire genre Oh look, it's this dumbfuck once again. I entered the thread to laugh, but no (you) for you.
>>427725 Oh, so you quoted it but didn't actually refute it. Good job. Not reading won't let you refute anything, but at least you'll have a slightly easier time convincing yourself you're right. It's one thing if you don't reply at all. I can respect if you just go to do other things, but to reply with non-arguments is just sad. >>427737 >comes into thread for mechanics that are more prevalent than they deserve to be >gets mad when someone points out the objective downsides of mechanics that are prevalent in games he happens to like You're allowed to like bad games. That doesn't make them good. Go have fun with your dice rolling, skill-minimizing, glorified VNs. Seriously. Good for you, being easily entertained by games that use mechanics that inherently take less skill. Maybe some day you can grow up to be a Games Journalist. Well, unless you specifically like the japanese variant. Then you might be fucked, since they think you're icky. But if you like the western kind, then you're set.
>>427744 >Oh, so you quoted it but didn't actually refute it. Yes, and?
>>427747 So anyone reading will see you were confronted with arguments and replied multiple times with deliberate non-rebuttals, which just makes it look like you can't refute them. Good job.
>>427749 >So anyone reading will see you were confronted with arguments and replied multiple times with deliberate non-rebuttals, which just makes it look like you can't refute them. It's /v/ not debate club. No once but you cares.
>>427751 And yet you reply, which is not something you'd do if you "didn't care."
>>427752 >And yet you reply, which is not something you'd do if you "didn't care." I like seeing you upset, you might not be assmad but you care enough to enough to want to get the last reply in this reply chain. Wasting your time is entertaining enough.
>>427753 I'm not the one who said I didn't care. >Wasting your time is entertaining enough. Where do you think you are? Don't we all come here specifically to waste time?
>>427752 >>427754 >I'm not the one who said I didn't care. cool, neither did I. >Where do you think you are? Don't we all come here specifically to waste time? Yes, and?
>>427756 >I'm not the one who said I didn't care. >cool, neither did I. Yes you did. Right here. >>427751 >No once (sic) but you cares. >Where do you think you are? Don't we all come here specifically to waste time? >Yes, and? You said that my wasting my time was entertaining enough, as if it was some sort of insult. Right here, I'll quote it, since you can't remember things you just said, which prompted the things you're replying to. >>427753 >Wasting your time is entertaining enough. See? So when I point out that this site exists to be a time waster, it's in response to this. I thought this was clear, since in my response, I directly quoted the thing I was responding to. You're embarrassing yourself with your lack of reading comprehension. You don't need to keep replying if it's just gonna be with responses of this caliber. it's just sad.
>>427758 nice reply, I didn't read it.
>>427759 You say that, but you've kept replying, so it's clear you are reading enough to care enough to reply. Too bad none of your replies even tries defending your actual viewpoints. Too bad you're too stupid to even try justifying your bad taste.
>>427762 nice reply, still didn't read it
>>427763 Good. Every reply you give draws more attention to how hard it is for you to refute my arguments, which draws more attention to how correct I am. Keep humiliating yourself. You're only proving me more correct.
>>427766 nr;dr
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I am noticing a lot of area denied/area needs to be freed/climb tower to unlock mechanic that was popularised by Farcry3. Then I realized it started with Assassin's creed to syncronize an area. Then I realized only Ubisoft games follow this trend because apparently stealing from your other teams is fine.
>>428073 >that hang glider I was so excited to find that you can fly in farcry3 but the low range and flight controls made it almost useless. And then you had heli and planes in later games. How many games tried to copy the gliding mechanics and failed?
>>427297 >canceling attacks and change Yeah, for how much shit for honor gets to be a jewbisoft game it had fun mechanics at least.... pity that game has so many problem that the positive points get shadowed
>>428202 Isn't that every other Ubisoft game? Have a good mechanic, use it in a game, but fill it with ubisoft's requirement of microtransaction and diversity. Black Flag and Rogue had very good naval combat. If any other studio had used it, they would make a franchise out of it and improved it sequel by sequel Doesn't doesn't Kingdom Come uses this kind of combat?
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>>428102 I know Just Cause 3 had that wingsuit which was really fun, especially the landscape being so pretty. Man, that was another fun game with lots of cool mechanics that sadly wasn't used full potential
>>427692 If you weren't in such a hurry to bandage your ego you would've read the post where I told you that half the people ITT like both action games and RPGs. The existence of those people proves that you're full of shit. I didn't say you were butthurt to "win" the "argument", I was telling you that your entire motivation for believing the retarded shit you've been talking about is that you're still mad at a genre you don't like. >Where do you think we are? Considering how thrown off you are by vaguely argumentative conversation, I'd say that you're the one forgetting where we are.
That was some graceful wingsuiting flying in that deleted post.
Reuploading in higher res. Always liked flying >>429227 I actually had to search a lot to find one without music added or streaming face. Glad you liked it
>>429233 Always love flying free
>>429105 >If you weren't in such a hurry to bandage your ego you would've read the post where I told you that half the people ITT like both action games and RPGs. I was never arguing against that point. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. So irrelevant that I thought it was just flavor text, and not that you actually expected some sort of rebuttal. It's not an argument, so there is nothing to refute. >The existence of those people proves that you're full of shit. No it doesn't. Lots of people like shitty mechanics and shitty games. >I was telling you that your entire motivation for believing the retarded shit you've been talking about is that you're still mad at a genre you don't like. No, my motivation is that we're on a video games imageboard, and specifically a thread about bad mechanics. Stop being mad that people point out flaws in things you like. Go back to whatever shithole sanitized site you came from if you want only positive opinions to be allowed. >Considering how thrown off you are by vaguely argumentative conversation, I'd say that you're the one forgetting where we are. Oh the irony. You're the one that jumps to accusing people of butthurt and anger just because they disagree with you. Go to reddit or something if you want people who are only allowed to express positive opinions about things you like.
>>429417 I didn't accuse you of being butthurt until after you said I was projecting, which was your own poor reading comprehension. And you can plug your ears and ignore it all you like, but if RPG mechanics were objectively bad then nobody would enjoy both. You should look up the expression "90% of everything is crap". It's fine that you have this misapprehension that stuff that doesn't appeal to you is objectively bad, the problem is that you (for whatever reason) require other people to agree with you. So far no one has but you're still replying anyway. If I speculate as to why you'll accuse me of projecting again.
>>429417 There's no point. In two previous posts you showed that you'll just ignore any refutation to your retarded statements and then say "you didn't refute it, you're just mad, enjoy liking bad things, sorry you have shit taste". I'm not going to take you by the hand and walk you through my own words one at a time until you comprehend them, because you deliberately won't. No point trying to have a conversation with someone who is willing to lie to himself to avoid being wrong.
>>428398 >If any other studio had used it, they would make a franchise out of it and improved it sequel by sequel Ubisoft is trying to do that with Skull and Bones, their new title that focuses on piracy. Unfortunately the game has had a pretty rocky development process and been delayed multiple times.
>>429563 >I didn't accuse you of being butthurt until after you said I was projecting, which was your own poor reading comprehension. I didn't accuse you of projecting until you clearly were. Anyone can go back and read the posts. >And you can plug your ears and ignore it all you like, but if RPG mechanics were objectively bad then nobody would enjoy both. >if something is popular, that means it's good! Go play Fortnite, faggot. >You should look up the expression "90% of everything is crap". And RPGs are in the 10% of game genres that are crap. >It's fine that you have this misapprehension that stuff that doesn't appeal to you is objectively bad No, I explained in objective terms why the mechanics are bad. Some of the most fundamental mechanics of the genre are about taking away player control and replacing it with RNG. Go play a slot machine and tell me it's a good genre of game. >the problem is that you (for whatever reason) require other people to agree with you. The problem is that you (for whatever reason) come to a video games imageboard, to a thread specifically about people complaining about video game mechanics, and get mad when people complain about mechanics in a genre that you happen to like (even though you don't actually say why the mechanics themselves are good) It doesn't matter if people speak up in agreement. The truth is the truth. I've stated objective reasons behind my opinion, and I'd be interested in actual arguments, because that's the point of the entire site, but people stopped offering actual arguments a long time ago. I refuted them, and nobody can refute those refutations. Or at least nobody gives enough of a shit to do so. Which is fine. But that's why we're on the site. To argue about video games. It's fun. For everyone except little bitches that take it personally when people point out they like a genre of games made up of bad mechanics. >>429577 >In two previous posts you showed that you'll just ignore any refutation to your retarded statements No, I've responded to actual refutations. I didn't even realize you thought those other things were refutations, because they weren't. There was nothing to say because there weren't arguments as to why your position was right. Just saying I'm wrong isn't an argument. Saying why is. And I've refuted all your reasons for why. >I'm not going to take you by the hand and walk you through my own words one at a time until you comprehend them, because you deliberately won't. No point trying to have a conversation with someone who is willing to lie to himself to avoid being wrong. See this is what I meant when I accused you of projecting. Anyone actually reading these posts will see it.
>>430055 Thank you for proving my point repeatedly. Anyone with the patience to read your post can see how many times you play dumb to avoid being wrong, or lie. Like I said I'm not going to walk you through why you're wrong when I and others have already done so and you just ignored it.
>>430099 >Thank you for proving my point repeatedly. Anyone with the patience to read your post can see how many times you play dumb to avoid being wrong, or lie. It's like you're talking about yourself. But as you say, the readers can judge for themselves. >Like I said I'm not going to walk you through why you're wrong when I and others have already done so and you just ignored it. I didn't ignore anything. But I'm not going to quote every instance of you making a non-argument, because it is pointless. There is nothing I can say to refute something that isn't an argument in the first place. Saying it's subjective isn't addressing my arguments in regards to objective matters. Saying "well it just isn't for you" isn't an argument, and again doesn't address my arguments in regards to objective matters. There were arguments made early on, and I addressed them. More conversation like that would be fun. But instead you just keep making posts with nothing but sound and fury, and then just saying that you've said things, but never saying things or saying what the things are. The only thing you're correct about is that readers can judge for themselves, and you only say that in the most-roundabout way, cloaking it in a bunch more wrongness.
>>429237 >>429090 Arkham Knight had perfected the batman gliding gameplay, Huge city plus the grapple launcher available since the beginning helps maneuvreing in tight spaces. It isn't as fast as yours but its still enjoyable
Breakable weapons/armor. It's only good in roguelikes and games that make weapons break based on something other than taking/dealing x number of hits (like Way of the Samurai 1-3 where weapons had a "heat" meter that filled if you blocked or spammed attacks too much, but would quickly go back to zero if you disengaged for a bit). It never serves any purpose but busywork and a money sink. Guns of any remotely reasonable quality don't break just from being shot a bunch of times (outside of some very specific sniper rifles) unless you do so without firing. Only some small, easily replaced, parts (springs, firing pins) will even begin to wear out in the number of rounds you fire over an entire campaign. Dialog systems where you don't know what your character will actually say before clicking it. There's absolutely no reason to do this. Only time it ever worked was Alpha Protocol, where the player character is introduced as a social manipulator who tells people things because of the reaction he'll get, not because he believes in it.
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'Stealth' mechanics where you see through walls or get otherwise supernatural and obscene powers. Like, what the fuck is the actual point? If a stealth game does this, it automatically gets a place on my shit list. It's stupid, it breaks tension, it breaks immersion. It's a lazy workaround to avoid coding complex AI. It's telling when the only game that actually gets stealth right is the one that pioneered the stealth genre in the first place 24 years ago. The whole point of being stealthy and undetected is to experience the tension of tresspassing through a situation in which you'd otherwise be powerless. You must maintain the element of subtlety because it is your only advantage. See-through walls and time-shift undos take away all the challenge.
>>430152 Devs only do this because they are too fucking lazy to program in reliable sound cues and feedback like Thief did over 20 years ago.
>>430152 >>430137 Man Arkham Asylum's success really did a number on the industry, everyone trying to copy some mechanic or other. The detective mode is a way to add a "easy mode" on games where stealth "sections" chew down the players. And incurs the same solution, "don't use it then", by people. It does reveals glaring flaws in stealth AI in games. Truth is there hasn't been a true stealth game in years. >>430141 webm related for why actual dialogue is needed
>>430293 Imagine how great stealth games could be right now if Creative didn't shoah Aureal and Detective mode in Bamham would enhance your hearing ability instead of being a visual wallhack. It could be made so that some surfaces/rooms/areas make it less useful due to enhanced hearing echoes coming from the wrong direction or noise, which the player would have to figure out on their own.
>>430342 It doesn't even need to be audio shit that would need to be messed with to have good stealth, its the level design. Then you can have fixed AI, fixed sound cues and everything would be fine. But modern developers don't want to spend that amount of time tinkering in 1 level, they want everything in a pre-packaged software bundle that works out of the box. Yeah a audio focused stealth game would be nice but not expected from current development environment
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>>429237 >>429233 >>430137 Personally I like just cause gliding because it feels like actual wingsuit gliding, while batman feels like a parachute/hangglider thing, which is good since thats the best way to fly in a dense environment while engaging enemies. You'd think there would be a wingsuit flying sports game but of course all sports game have to multi-year franchise with real world celebrity face scan, otherwise whales won't buy it.
>>430152 Didn't you know? Every game is now about having a power fantasy, stealth games are just the secret agent mind over matter power fantasy. Pick your flavor.
>>430137 Holy shit that game looks fucking gorgeous. I can't even comprehend how they managed to pull that off, that shit looks like black magic to me. But I bet the actual combat is just hold a button and batman does everything on his own right? >>430412 Is animal crossing or flight simulator also a power fantasy?
>>430417 >animal crossing Nip games don't count anon, we both know that. >flight simulator It isn't that far removed if you think about it, there is almost no pressure or challenge, just a sandbox. I think the appeal is not that far removed from someone who just zones out and plays a game on easy difficulty. You zone out and allow your brain to shut off. Really though your mistake was taking my post completely literally like an autist.
>>430417 >But I bet the actual combat is just hold a button and batman does everything on his own right? No. Anyone who actually played the games knows that isn't how it works. Maybe on easy mode in the prologue where it's just teaching you how to play the game, there might be a mob of just the most basic enemies that you could just mash the counter button to get through, but you'll get a shit score even then, and you're highly encouraged to get high scores because it gives you EXP to buy new moves and stuff. To keep a combo going, it's basically a rhythm game, but you can't just mash counter in rhythm, because enemies won't always attack in rhythm, so you need to mix it up with other moves to keep the combo going, even in the easiest encounters. But in the vast majority of cases, encounters will involve enemies with different abilities and weapons that require you to use different strategies and moves to defeat, especially if you want to get a good score. Also there are stealth sections where actual combat is not a good option, though as mentioned, the "Detective Mode" is much too overpowered and makes things too easy in many cases. The series in general isn't particularly difficult, but people exaggerate to a ridiculous degree when they talk about how simple the combat is. I have to imagine it's because they played shitty games that copied it, like Assassin's Creed or something. I don't play Assassin's Creed because it sucks, so I wouldn't know.
>>430152 >>430160 Stealth games really have got to shit since the early 10's, look at what happened to Splinter Cell.
>>430459 Assassin's creed was released in 2007, AC2 was november of '09, Arkham Asylum August '09. At least get your info right before you insult something. That said, I highly doubt Ubisoft changed the entire combat system of AC2 in four months.
>>430484 I'm aware the original Assassin's Creed was from '07, but people here have given me the impression that later Assassin's Creed games changed the combat to copy Batman. Then again, maybe I shouldn't trust their impressions since I know they're wrong about how the Batman games work anyway. All I know is from the little I played of the original Assassin's Creed, it did not interest me at all, and everything I've seen about the rest of the series seems to imply it just gets worse. You can replace my Assassin's Creed reference with that Lord of the Rings game or one of the others that people here say copy Batman.
>>430482 I had noticed the slight decline of stealth right around or just after Ass creed 2 had released but it didn't really hit me just how bad it had become until Hitman Absolution came out. Ass creed was always destined to become what it is now but seeing Hitman become what it became with Absolution was the time shit started to go shit I feel and coincidentally that year both Ass Creed 3 and Far Cry 3 released which both have the most basic entry level stealth system which is now rampant in games.
>>430488 I personally like the Ezio triology (no, not the rerelease) of AC. They were fun back when I played them. Me and some friends would hang out and play them. One was actually a historybuff. I hope he's doing alright. >You can replace my Assassin's Creed reference with that Lord of the Rings game Shadow of War? I'd agree with you then, Shadow of War could be a real clusterfuck at times. Never did finish that game, and I have no interest in going back to it.
>>430459 Are you saying that the reviewer from webm related, was playing on Easy Mode intentionally to make fun of the combat, or that while you can win fights like this, you won't get much XP?
>>430540 I'm saying both. You'd have to be playing on Easy mode and near the beginning of the game to do that, and even then, you wouldn't get much XP, which would screw you over later and make you probably have to grind. In the vast majority of the game, you can't play like that at all, though.
auto combos in fighting games. Last thing i want when planning out combo routes is to push a button and have it do something completely different than what i intended. It's a garbage mechanic that honestly shouldn't even exist in the first place. Cause anyone worth their salt wouldn't use them and any casual picking up the game for the first time would only pick up bad habits because of them. They're also just plain ass anoying.
>>430866 One of the things I hated about KOF14 was the auto combo system they included. If they want to keep it. fine, but give me the option to disable it.
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>>430540 >>430557 You'd have to play like this in this most fundamental way, press attack-attack-attack whenever you can, then press counter when someone attacks you. This works for basic mobs. Then you can use powermoves or finishers when you have combos in multiples of 5 to 1 hit-kill enemies. Then you have power attacks that nets you x2 combo and pushes out enemies, and it has larger range. Enemies have variety that forces you to use new tactics (not spam the above paragraph). First gun enemies that you have to engage first (or use batclaw to steal their guns), shield enemies that you have to attack from behind (jump over them with space so 3 buttons in total), uncounterable attacks so you can only dodge them (multiple dodges in a row too), heavy enemies which you have to stun first, so dodge their attacks and then use bat gadgets. This is pretty fair and fine for the franchise. Plenty fun and no bullshit with mechanics. Most complains are "its too easy" (which it is) and that's the whole easy to learn, hard to master thing. You can go the whole game by without building combos, or spamming attacks and ocassionally using gadgets. And this gives the impression of game being easy, as the more "elite" players here say. My view is it doesn't punish hard enough for playing like this, or really incentivizes you to go for mastery other than more XP for flashy moves. Also upping the difficulty just means faster attacks and enemies hit harder, which again doesn't mean more fun, so you don't feel accomplishment when playing in hard or above. Then again batman isn't a brawler so one can argue putting more effort into fighting (which is only half of gameplay) isn't worth it. Therefore other franchises should use this system to tweak and improve upon rather than copypaste and be done with it
>>430459 People talk out of their ass cause of jewtuber once made a video where he was one button smashing and his screen fell down and still won the combat Obviously the combat was as you pointed out, lv1 scrubs no batons, no shield no knife no nothing therefor easy to do but apparently we have normalfags in our midst
>>431033 One way I can think of making the combat "harder" is have movement and positioning play a bigger role in game. Currently batman can leap across maps for combos and pressing the movt keys does vaguely "select" the target (aiming directly at the desired target is better way). So have the direction of attack only be powerful from the front of you character so you have to really aiming the direction of your attack. Have the powerstrike have limited range so players have to use dodge and jump to move to their targets quickly. And if you get surrounded have them pile on top of you so you can't counter all of them. This way your position in the fight is effectively your strategy. Also more crueler sound effects so it feels like really hurting your opponents.
>>431118 Everything you describe is basically how it worked in Mad Max. Your attacks have limited range, you don't just have an attack and counter button for the base, you have actual combos with finishers, you can't cancel out of heavy attacks, and you can't counter multiple people at once, you can't effectively counter weapon attacks until later on in the game, your "remove this nigger immediately" button doesn't depend on your combo, but on the amount of shivs or shotgun shells you have looted and saved up. You do have a powered up state you reach by getting big combos and killing dudes, but it actually changes your moveset, replacing all of your heavy combo finishers with wrestling moves which have incredible audio and impact, and with some upgrades, it lets you finish off guys you stun without having to spend a shiv, but only while you're powered up or are holding a weapon. Game also rewards you thinking ahead, by letting you carry gas tanks in your car, which you can take out and throw into a group of enemies to clear them out, spending precious fuel for your car and possibly a shotgun shell if you decide to shoot it out of the air.
>>431033 >>431118 God damnit I want to bury my face in that chest.
>>431129 >>431118 I would also remove the quick firing selection of wepons like glue grenade, shock gun, etc. Just like catwoman here have just the whip and caltrops. This way you don't make him stun faraway enemies too. Infact, have there not be a separate stun button and just have that beatdown for heavy red enemies work as stun for all - it you consecutively attack multiple times quickly, the target becomes stunned. Maybe have a perfectly timed counter option such that if you time it perfectly the counter does a followup attack. But it will be quite hectic with so many enemies on screen. Mad Max did a lot of things right with arkham combat it would be cool to see (if any) sequel/prequel to it, if avalanche isn't sold to EA or something. But I think mad max wasn't the place to have an Arkham styled combat system. It should be a clunkier, basic system of attack/block/dodge. So far the games that feature Arkham combat are Mad Max, Asscreed games, My little Orcs games, newer Spiderman titles, Sleeping dogs? Which games you say are better implemented of this system, which ones could be improved and how?
>>430484 Ass Creed took the bamham combat in lamest way possible - in 1 and somewhat in 2, you had to counter enemies to get the kill as mashing attack was a bad choice. They then chose the combo system with allowed you to chain the attacks while occasionally hitting counter to attacking enemies. Once you got the hang of it, you'd welcome open combat with both hands, and hidden blades was the fastest to kill everyone, you can complete the game with hidden blades only It didn't need this combat, ezio didn't need open conflict to be viable, maybe the sword combat could be improved. I still liked dagger of brutus in brotherhood though >>427613 .msi is microsoft installer, default format for visual studio programs. If you're skeptical, create a vm environment and run it. >>430557 You didn't had to grind in batman, xp system gave you special moves and gadget upgrades that made it easier but was not a requirement for end game. >>430911 What did its autocombo feature do?
>>432502 >Ass Creed took the bamham combat in lamest way possible - in 1 Anon, stop. You don't know what you are talking about. Reread that post of mine you're replying to. And read it carefully. It is impossible for AC1 to "take" batman's combat system since it came out TWO YEARS BEFORE B:AA, because if that was the case, then it has been wrongfully called the bamham combat, and should be changed to asscreed combat. The rest of your post is fine.
>>432505 AssCreed 1 combat also has nothing to do with bamham combat, because as deep as AC1 goes is holding down the block button and then waiting for people to swing at you to instakill them. There's no freeflow attacks, you don't knock people down by hitting them, there's no combo meter, there's no combo fueled finishers or anything.
>>432538 >>432505 A typo mistake, i meant to say - aside from 1 and somewhat 2. The combat from brotherhood resembled batman.
>>432541 No, Brotherhood and Revelation work exactly like 1, but with more animations, and the utterly retarded chain instakill system. I mean, I see why you'd think the chain instakill system is like bamham, but it's really not. I think 4 and Rogue are also the exact same, and Unity is a weird inbetween system where the combat sucks fat shit to encourage you to do stealth. Syndicate on the other hand, is literally slow bamham combat, and I haven't played anything past that.
>>432543 Yeah that chainkill system, that's what I thought was lame. I found it fun during the abstergo challenges when going for massive chains. Otherwise it made the missions go past. I only played Black flag of else, the system was similar with guns added, which was the instakill all button. What you say they add would be better to improve the combat? Or have combat minimized like the 1st game?
>>432546 >I only played Black flag of else, the system was similar with guns added Guns existed ever since Ass Creed 2.
>>432546 I'd love to see an asscreed game that actually favors stealth again, but the melee combat is like a giant historical bar brawl, where your character is clearly disadvantaged in straight up combat against armored soldiers, so you have to come up with wacky and improvised ways to win encounters. Something like third person Dark Messiah. You pick up a chair and throw it at a guy to slow him down, knock down market stalls onto guards, throw civilians at guards to slow them down while running, actually use your gadgets like smoke grenades and poison darts and such. Force the player to only be equipped with small, concealed weapons which are still deadly when catching people unaware, and can hold their own in a 1v1 fight, but anything more and you need to bust out the scooby doo strats. >>432552 Yes, but the guns in Asscreed before 4 were the wrist mounted, takes a good 3 seconds to aim an accurate shot, and still might not kill armored guys. In 4 you can strap 4 guns to yourself like blackbeard and instantly kill one enemy per gun. Unity has muskets with bayonets as a melee weapon class, and you can delete one guy before having to reload for a long time. Then Syndicate just adds fucking 6 shooters, which you can use to either do an execution attack which stuns other enemies, or to unload into a guy, taking four bullets to kill someone, because breathing in toxic factory fumes made everyone in London impervious to bullets.
>>432558 Use of objects and environments like dark messiah, that could work. But you have to pickup each object, aim at the enemy, then throw at them, then do it for each object quickly for effect. I suppose this could make for some comedic sheninigans. Suited for a thief or scoundrel type character. Fun idea for a game. You have any other ideas with that, or maybe with other games too?
Speaking of arkham games, why don't more games use the riddler environemental puzzles more often, since its the perfect use of a open world 1st/3rd person view to take picture of an interesting landscape in the world. You'll have to position you and your camera correctly to take a picture and it shows off your detailed environment as well. Better than 100s of collectathons in open world games


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